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NitroX
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Gryphon - Hunting deer with hounds?
#2515 - 27/04/03 02:12 PM

Gryphon

I have seen in a number of your photographs hounds and even vehicles with dog cages on the back.

I gather from this that you do or used to hunt sambar with hound hunting team(s). And maybe since with your own pooches.

If you don't mind can you tell us about this method of hunting the great sambar deer.

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John aka NitroX

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gryphon
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Re: Gryphon - Hunting deer with hounds? [Re: NitroX]
#2553 - 29/04/03 06:17 AM

Yes hunting sambar with hounds was one of my favourite times for a few years until i went back to stalking.
Political pressure from ill informed greenies is sure to prohibit this fine pastime in the not so distant future--all the signs are there now.

The general method of hound-hunting is for members of the team to scout the bush looking for a mark fresh enough for the hounds to "start" this mark could be from a deer jumped up or where they had been feeding/walking the night before.Often team members will be scouting the bush areas during the week looking for a likely stag to show up so as to hunt it the next Saturday.
Once/if marks are located the hounds are brought in to start with generally a cold starter dog or bitch to get the lead out of the mass of marks in the feed areas,this dog will work the marks and give voice telling the members where it is/and how hot/close it is to the deer and on hearing the change in voicing as the dog "tells" you that it is getting closer the rest of the pack will be slipped and they get up to the cold scenter very quickly and the volume go`s up and hopefully the sambar go`s down.Of course there is a lot more to it than this basic answer with finer points that come into it as the time of the year, the weather, the height hunting, the feed, hound condition,the fat hunters after the summer layoff haha etc etc.
Not always in the hunters favour though--i have personally wittnessed a small stag run the hounds for a nine hour day and get away and it can often be a case of the deer wins especially if it has learnt to throw the hounds from previous hunts.
Other times might warrant walking the hounds on leads for many miles looking for fresh marks well away from the roads and often hounds have gone home without a run too.

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NitroX
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Re: Gryphon - Hunting deer with hounds? [Re: gryphon]
#2559 - 29/04/03 09:10 PM

Gryphon

What I don't understand is how you work out where to put the shooters? My understanding is shooters are pre-positioned at likely points where the deer will try to escape through - such as saddles, or river gullies etc.

But from my novice's mind the Sambar mountains are pretty wide and often high so isn't it very easy for a deer to slip through?

After my second ballotted Hog Deer hunt at Boole Poole (didn't score that time), a couple of the other ballotted hunters belonged to hound hunting teams, and one of these blokes invited me to join a hunt if I was over in Vic. Unfortunately I didn't get back there for several years.

A lot of inter-state deer hunters dislike hound hunting the sambar but personally I've never seen the problem if it is done ethically and think it is a great deer hunting sport in Australia.

It would be a great pity if the "greenies" put an end to it.

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John aka NitroX

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NitroX
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Hunting sambar deer with hounds? [Re: NitroX]
#2560 - 29/04/03 09:35 PM

I should point out to hunters not from Australia who may be unfamiliar with the topic. Changed the title above to reflect the topic.

Hunting the sambar deer is done with a team of hounds in the thickly forested mountains of Victoria. It is not like the "hound hunts" of Great Britian or France, with horses and a pack of hounds running down foxes or stags (no comment on this activity - just different).

MY understanding is that shooters are positioned in likely exit points for the stag, but may shift depending on the direction the hounds go, and if one of them is lucky enough, gets a shot off at the running stag. Or one of the very fit individuals who follow the hounds may get a shot at a bailed up stag.

The venison is shared among the team and if a trophy stag, the shooter gets the trophy. Most teams operate most weekends during the winter so they are very dedicated men.

A mature Sambar stag can weigh about 660 lbs and is the third largest deer, after the various Moose species, and the Elk or Wapiti. And the deer density is very low, and is at an average of maybe only one animal per 2 square kilometres of thick mountainous bush. Generally the animals are singles or in groups of only two or three.

Lesser breeds of deer would not cope with hunting using these methods but Sambar appear very strong and as long a the hound team is not excessive stand a good chance of escape. Inaddition the hounds are scent trailing hounds and do not bring down the deer. The dogs would not come out of it well if they did mix it.

If hunting sambar deer by stalking I once saw the statistics for the average sambar stalking trip and the probability of SEEING a sambar was 0.83 deer ie less than one deer was sighted per trip. I imagine most of these trips were weekend hunts, but not a deer taken let alone a trophy per hunting trip, but not even a deer SIGHTED per trip.

Hound hunting sambar on the other hand does increase the odds as a team on scoring but dedication is a key.

***

Gryphon,

Correct or comment on anything above you feel like.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

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"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
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gryphon
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Loc: Sambar ground/Victoria/Austral...

Re: Hunting sambar deer with hounds? [Re: NitroX]
#2564 - 30/04/03 04:07 AM

Nitro a lot of interstate hunters dislike the idea of using hounds as often they hear of the wrong doings of a few individuals that discredit the sport.There are still some around that still do so of course.

Team members are positioned according to the lay of the land that experienced members know from vast knowledge gained from many years of hunting,saddles ridges spurs rivers and creeks all come into the equation as will the size/sex of the deer as hinds will run differently to stags and spikeys will go like a bat out of hell at times etc.Quite a few deer are shot by deer stalkers that sit themselves on a well used game trail on the fringes of a sambar hunt---if shot by a stalker he/she is entitled to the trophy head under unwritten laws.

I always walked the hounds in which puts you right in the middle of the action most times unless the stag clears right out of the area or go`s over the top into the next river system,this can be quite a bit of fun too with a pair of big strong hounds in each hand while negotiating river crossings and blackberry gullies or extremely steep slippery wet hillsides resulting in many slips and sore bones,these minor problems are soon forgotten though if you find a fresh big stag mark but those sore bones become apparent if he makes a clean getaway.
This is for the dedicated hard tough hunter a sport that is or can be very rewarding but has many hunts in weather conditions you could only describe as atrocious and it certainly takes a keen hunter to get out of his swag on those wet winter mornings in the high country.For you African hunters the snow and wet winter conditions is a lttle different to the heat you guys are used to/ the pic is one of those mornings and shows some team members pointing out a mark to me.(private joke)

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NitroX
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Re: Hunting sambar deer with hounds? [Re: gryphon]
#2568 - 30/04/03 11:38 AM

Gryphon

That photo is no good. You are supposed to lead everyone to believe it is always sunny here and never rains, let alone snow.

That looks a bit like my first hunting trip on sambar in a August in the Big River area. Because I didn't have a 4WD I picked a high ridge with one of the few "all weather" dirt tracks in the area. It also happened to the highest ridge in the area. And we managed to pick the wettest week in Victoria for the year. When I realised we were on the highest ridge and the clouds were dumping all the rain right on top of us, we shifted to the other side of the range to the Lake Eildon area.

Saw the rear left hip of one sambar deer crashing away in the undergrowth that trip.

. That was my 0.83 % of a deer

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John aka NitroX

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"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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gryphon
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Re: Hunting sambar deer with hounds? [Re: NitroX]
#2576 - 01/05/03 05:39 AM

Ahh! Big River,thats where i wandered around aimlessly for many long days in pursuit of deer--tough place to hunt and it gets hounded every Saturday but still produces deer,one of my all time favourite places is BR arm in Lake Eidon same river but different country and it has great heads there if you are lucky enough to connect.

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deerhunter
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Reged: 05/05/03
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Loc: Queensland, Australia

Re: Hunting sambar deer with hounds? [Re: NitroX]
#2653 - 06/05/03 07:52 PM

I am from Sunny Queensland, chasing Sambar in the snow was a new experience for me.

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Australian Deer Association

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gryphon
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Loc: Sambar ground/Victoria/Austral...

Re: Hunting sambar deer with hounds? [Re: deerhunter]
#2671 - 07/05/03 05:30 AM

DH/Adrian the beanie is a far better idea in winter than the sunglasses haha for those colder days--didnt they tell you

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AspenHill
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Re: Hunting sambar deer with hounds? [Re: deerhunter]
#2735 - 10/05/03 02:20 AM

It does me GOOD to see snow somewhere else in the world.

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deerhunter
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Re: Hunting sambar deer with hounds? [Re: AspenHill]
#2797 - 13/05/03 10:14 PM

It was September (Spring down under). No one told me there was going to be snow.

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