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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles

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EDELWEISS
.375 member


Reged: 22/11/05
Posts: 608
Loc: Gettysburg
Any love for the Baikal Doubles
      #250753 - 20/07/14 03:28 PM

My first double was a Baikal IZH94 O/U 30-06, since then I added a SxS 30-06 and a SxS 45-70; but theyve sat in the safe UNFIRED. Since those days Ive added Merkels and K-guns; but they are in BIGGER calibers I still want to love my Baikals and use them for Whitetails and Wild Boar.

I tell myself they are the DRs that you use when you wouldnt take a K-gun into the field because its a hurricane and the only day you can hunt for a month. Theyre the AK of DRs.

Anybody love their Baikal?

--------------------
If it's not custom, it's just borrowed


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Iowa_303s
.400 member


Reged: 22/03/13
Posts: 1016
Loc: Iowa, USA
Re: Any love for the Baikal Doubles [Re: EDELWEISS]
      #250754 - 20/07/14 03:50 PM

I had one in 45/70. Sold it about a year ago and I do not miss it at all. What I didn't care for was you had to hold the barrels down against spring pressure to chamber and extract shells.
To date it has been the only DR I have owned. Shot a few British made DR's and liked them but the Baikal did nothing for me.
I guess I'm more of a Mauser or single shot rifle fan.

--------------------
Matt

formerly known as Iowa_303

"Once your reputation is ruined you can live your life quite freely."

"Enkelkinder über alles"


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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39885
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Any love for the Baikal Doubles [Re: Iowa_303s]
      #250758 - 20/07/14 05:55 PM

I have a .45/70 Baikal but would find it very hard to "love" it. It is basic, ugly and roughly made. I bought it just to try it out, and perhaps as a real rough and tumble rifle. Something one doesn't worry about throwing into the back of a ute.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Well_Well_Well
.333 member


Reged: 03/01/07
Posts: 305
Loc: Australia
Re: Any love for the Baikal Doubles [Re: NitroX]
      #250766 - 20/07/14 07:08 PM

I bought one mainly so I could learn about doubles, tinker with it and have a backup double for rainy days, rough country and as a loaner so I didn't need to have a stainless synthetic cookie cutter rifle for those tasks.

I wound up with one in 30-06, rather than 45-70. No big deal really, its a pig gun really.


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Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3591
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: Any love for the Baikal Doubles [Re: Well_Well_Well]
      #250808 - 21/07/14 09:18 AM

Much underrated IMHO.

I had a .45-70 ex-Remington for a while, had great potential for laying proper ribs and regulating it for a hard-hitting big game load. Unfortunately I needed funds for an urgent purchase (nitro Paradox) and since I hadn't started on the Baikal yet at that stage it was one of the "culls".
I do have some regrets as I think it would have been a marvelous knock-about boar rifle.

Details of a previous thread to which I contributed here.

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au


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ducmarc
.400 member


Reged: 14/07/14
Posts: 1207
Loc: fla
Re: Any love for the Baikal Doubles [Re: Marrakai]
      #250816 - 21/07/14 12:20 PM

finally got to handle on today. lighter than thought. barely opens thought i might have to open on my leg. but i thought maybe give it to my engraver buddy have him pretty it up coin the frame fit and narrow the butt stock narrow the hand guard put a proper rib on it with real express sights.by then ill have enough in it to buy a nice budget proper double

--------------------
'killed by death' Lemmy.. ' boil the dog ' Elvis Manywounds "my best friend is my magnum forty four" hank willams the third.


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EDELWEISS
.375 member


Reged: 22/11/05
Posts: 608
Loc: Gettysburg
Re: Any love for the Baikal Doubles [Re: ducmarc]
      #250825 - 21/07/14 04:57 PM

I have to admit every time I think about thinning the vault, these come out, then they go back. They arent worth enough to sell for cash and Id miss them if they were gone. Id absolutely LOVE to have a FULL Length forearm made for the O/U 30-06. First it would cover the open space between the barrels which bothers me for some reason AND second how cool would it be to have a "Manlicher" style Double Rifle??? So far I havent been able to find anyone who will take on the project.

--------------------
If it's not custom, it's just borrowed


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aromakr
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Reged: 20/04/11
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Loc: Hamilton, Montana
Re: Any love for the Baikal Doubles [Re: EDELWEISS]
      #250842 - 22/07/14 01:55 AM

edelweiss:
I think heat dispersion of the bottom barrel would be a problem. Those barrels heat up pretty fast.
Bob


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prof242
.275 member


Reged: 10/02/04
Posts: 54
Loc: Colorado, USA
Re: Any love for the Baikal Doubles [Re: aromakr]
      #250871 - 22/07/14 03:24 PM

Can't say I love my .45-70 Baikal, but I do like it and use it. Had to do the minor work to ensure full opening. Also did some work on the firing pins and extractors and triggers. It shoots well and has become my go-to pig gun. Oh, and throated it out a little to seat bullets further out for increased case capacity.

--------------------
Politically correct = morally wrong


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hunter_angler
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Reged: 24/03/10
Posts: 104
Loc: Grand Marais, Michigan (home i...
Re: Any love for the Baikal Doubles [Re: prof242]
      #250890 - 23/07/14 12:10 AM

What sort of pressures do you guys with the Baikal .45-70 doubles load to? Or what commercially available ammunition can/do you use?

They must be reasonably tough little guns as they are also chambered in .30-06. I would think the break-open action might be the limitation rather than a little meat in the chamber walls.

Given the low cost and the adjustability in regulation I always thought it might be fun to pick one up and throat it out like Prof242 or even open up the chambers to .45-90 or .45-120. I would think that would allow for good performance while maintaining low/moderate pressures.

Like NitroX I think it would make a great gun to keep in the truck or cabin without worrying if it picks up a little "character" over time.

--------------------
Semper Paratus


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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26998
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Re: Any love for the Baikal Doubles [Re: hunter_angler]
      #250899 - 23/07/14 01:37 AM

Baikal indicates their double rifles are safe for 32,000psi. - or CUP, max pressures IIRC.

At this pressure level, I think most guys would agree the recoil was all that was desired.

As for powders, Varget and H4895 will allow full density loading with some compression in the standard .45/70 case with bullets crimped. The pressure generated would be under the rifle's max. listed and speeds just under or at 1,900fps with 400gr. bullets, a few more gr. for 2,000fps with 350's, using either of those powders.

For pigs, elk, moose and deer, I'd probably use the 405gr. Remington FN, or could use the Speer or Barnes OldStyle 400FP - just don't shoot them through the front shoulders - shoot them through the 'lights'(lungs).

The 350gr. Speer might need a longer throat, or 2" case to allow seating and crimping. It is the 'tough' bullet of he .457/8's for the .45/70. Some guys really like the 300gr. Nosler Partition which actually gives terrific penetration, I've read. The 350gr. Speer needs to start as fast as possible - over 1,900fps at least. You can do this in this rifle.

Crimping is good (almost necessary) in this round, as it aides in powder burning. Straight cases should be crimped or ignition problems can surface as well as producing large pressure changes resulting in large shot to shot velocity variations.

If mine, I would also throat the chamber for a longer seating depth - probably 3/8" 'leade' or 'freebore' would be good if you wanted to shoot 350gr. or heavier bullets.

A 3/8" freebore or leade is what I had put in my .458 2" chambering reamer.

A 3/8" freebore or leade in a .45/70's 2.1" chamber, would give the same O.A. Loaded length as a standard Winchester 2.4" chamber would provide ie: the same as the .45/90 designed for short, light bullets from 290 to 300gr., as it was originally chambered by Winchester.

There are many other suitable powders for these rifles, any rifles chambered for the .45/70, of course. Simply pick up a Hodgdon's Annual Manual (every year) and see for yourself.

Richard Lee's handloading manuals 1st and second edition also have good data for this and other rounds.

The 2.4" Sharps (which Oliver Winchester copied for his M86 lever and model 85 SS) on the other hand, used paper patched bullets which were tapered allowed long seating, increasing the useable capacity thus the use of more powder with heavier bullets, ie: 90 and 100gr. with bullets to 540gr., I think -- 500gr. anyway in factory loaded fodder.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V


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prof242
.275 member


Reged: 10/02/04
Posts: 54
Loc: Colorado, USA
Re: Any love for the Baikal Doubles [Re: DarylS]
      #250963 - 24/07/14 06:27 AM

I had sentiments of opening the chamber up to a 90, 100, or 110 capacity case also until I saw the metal that would be left after the reaming. It might have been safe, but didn't look so to me. That is why I just removed the barest metal from the throat.

--------------------
Politically correct = morally wrong


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CapeGunner
.224 member


Reged: 09/11/06
Posts: 19
Loc: New York-Hudson Valley-USA
Re: Any love for the Baikal Doubles [Re: prof242]
      #251058 - 26/07/14 11:36 AM

Prof242, I'm just curious about the minor work to ensure full opening. What did you have done exactly? Also the star headed bolts used-is there a special wrench for them or just a common screw driver? I tried a screw driver but on mine they are tight and I didn't want to bugger them up. My rear trigger is 4 lbs which I have no problem with but the front one is over 8 lbs and with this light a rifle really effects my shooting. I wanted to get it apart to see what I could do.
Frank


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DUGABOY1
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Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA
Re: Any love for the Baikal Doubles [Re: CapeGunner]
      #251303 - 31/07/14 01:13 AM

I have thought about buying one in 45-70 and doing a little dressing up of the wood, and do a trigger job which every one I have seen or fired were horrendous. I would also, once regulated, would solder it permanently because I have seen several suddenly loose regulation on examples belonging to friends. That would perplex me no end if it did so and let me wound a bear and have to go in the weeds with a $600 double rifle that is not regulated to sort out a wounded bear.

I must say, the first one I saw that belonged to a friend of mine, I was more than surprised at it’s potential for a starting point to build a good, not fine, but good canoe rifle that you don’t have to worry about loosing if you capsize in the rapids. It would be a fine little rifle to sit on a black bear bait or light rifle for following bear/lion dogs.

In my opinion these little rifles would have sold better if it had been also chambered for 30-30. Regulated for Winchester factory ammo with 170 gr bullets then soldered permanently would be a better balanced cartridge to rifle chambering. This would allow a youngster a learner double rifle that wouldn’t break the bank, and would take the abuse of a kid banging the rifle around without bringing tears to the eyes of his father.

Even an ugly child is loved by it’s father, so with a little grooming, the little Russian would be a joy to play with!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"


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Well_Well_Well
.333 member


Reged: 03/01/07
Posts: 305
Loc: Australia
Re: Any love for the Baikal Doubles [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #251348 - 31/07/14 04:22 PM

It's available in 30-06, what more could a Texan want?

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ruffcountry
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Reged: 06/01/09
Posts: 210
Loc: usa
Re: Any love for the Baikal Doubles [Re: CapeGunner]
      #251929 - 11/08/14 02:28 PM

Quote:

Prof242, I'm just curious about the minor work to ensure full opening. What did you have done exactly? Also the star headed bolts used-is there a special wrench for them or just a common screw driver? I tried a screw driver but on mine they are tight and I didn't want to bugger them up. My rear trigger is 4 lbs which I have no problem with but the front one is over 8 lbs and with this light a rifle really effects my shooting. I wanted to get it apart to see what I could do.
Frank




I too, would like to know about this work for better opening .

--------------------
Double Rifle Shooters Society


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DUGABOY1
.400 member


Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA
Re: Any love for the Baikal Doubles [Re: Well_Well_Well]
      #252167 - 15/08/14 09:48 AM

Quote:

It's available in 30-06, what more could a Texan want?




A 30-30 with it's rimmed case and lower chamber pressure!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"


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