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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Building Double Rifles & Gunsmithing
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ducmarc
.400 member


Reged: 14/07/14
Posts: 1207
Loc: fla
newbie looking for donor shotgun
      #250747 - 20/07/14 12:39 PM

been cruzing the pawn and gun shops looking for a donor to build a double somewhere around a 416 rigby but 45-70 would be the wise choice i reload for that.ones i've found so far field grade lc smith,pride of spain in 20 ga.couple of foxes some lefevers and one funk on the internet that is in reason. none have greener xbolts. is there a list of actions and years that i should be looking for other than having a xross bolts? thanks

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'killed by death' Lemmy.. ' boil the dog ' Elvis Manywounds "my best friend is my magnum forty four" hank willams the third.

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Mauser416
.300 member


Reged: 20/06/07
Posts: 162
Loc: Corpus Christi, Texas
Re: newbie looking for donor shotgun [Re: ducmarc]
      #250801 - 21/07/14 04:35 AM

The old Merkel and Simson SXS have Greenr crossbolts nd can be found for decent prices on various places in the web. I believe some of the old Brno also have crossbolts though mine has sidelocks and a hidden third lug.

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There is nothing worse in this world than an enslaved man who naively believes himself free, except, perhaps, trying to explain to that same man his predicament.

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ducmarc
.400 member


Reged: 14/07/14
Posts: 1207
Loc: fla
Re: newbie looking for donor shotgun [Re: Mauser416]
      #250804 - 21/07/14 05:53 AM

thanks need to hunt down the funk again its on a merkel frame

--------------------
'killed by death' Lemmy.. ' boil the dog ' Elvis Manywounds "my best friend is my magnum forty four" hank willams the third.

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TennHillBilly
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Reged: 17/05/13
Posts: 69
Loc: Tennessee Plateau
Re: newbie looking for donor shotgun [Re: ducmarc]
      #250806 - 21/07/14 06:44 AM

Check out Blackburn LLC-757Arms on the web. That's where I got my AyA 12 ga. at a very good price. The fellow let me put it on layaway since I was away for the Winter months. Had side clips, Greener X-bolt, bushed strikers, stock with cheekpiece. Everything I was looking for!

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ducmarc
.400 member


Reged: 14/07/14
Posts: 1207
Loc: fla
Re: newbie looking for donor shotgun [Re: TennHillBilly]
      #250811 - 21/07/14 11:46 AM

layaway is always good thanks

--------------------
'killed by death' Lemmy.. ' boil the dog ' Elvis Manywounds "my best friend is my magnum forty four" hank willams the third.

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EDELWEISS
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Reged: 22/11/05
Posts: 608
Loc: Gettysburg
Re: newbie looking for donor shotgun [Re: ducmarc]
      #250827 - 21/07/14 05:30 PM

Brother, from somebody that wanted to go that route and has zero skills (me), there are much better routes to a DR. If you can do the work that might be different BUT its a LOT of work.

My first suggestion is the Baikal double rifles. The O/U if you can still find them were avail in 223, 308, and 30-06. They can or could be found for well under $500. The SxSs are in 30-06 and 45-70. The tend to run about $750+. The Baikals are the AK of doubles, not baaaaad; but certainly not Merkels and the price reflects that. They will also be way less money then trying to build a DR on a shotgun.

Next Id look at the Sabbatis from Cabellas. They have 45-70s and 9.3x74r's for $3000. Thats more pricey but I was really satisfied with my 9.3. Again its not a Merkel or a K-Gun but its a nice gun for the money. The Pedersoli DR is in 45-70 and run a bit more. They are pretty sweet if you dont mind hammer doubles.

I bought barrel inserts for a 12ga. They were another of my do it on the cheap experiments that failed. They had no regulation and no way to extract the cases without poking a rod down the barrel AND the longest available are 18 inches.

Maybe 10 years ago Franchi (I think) made barrel inserts in 30-30 and 45-70 for Baikal SxS shotguns BUT they were only for the Coach Guns, so the barrels were short and they have "nuts" on the front of the muzzle to lock the barrels in place. The worst part was that there was very little regulation and the damn thing is heavy!

Converting a shotgun sounds cool; but Im so glad Im past that idea. Do what you will, and I wish you the best; but I bet youll be happier with either the Baikal doubles of the Sabbati. Theres a Pedersoli in my future....

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If it's not custom, it's just borrowed

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Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3591
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: newbie looking for donor shotgun [Re: EDELWEISS]
      #250832 - 21/07/14 09:40 PM

Agreed.
When you sleeve a shotgun with rifle barrels you have to lay ribs and regulate it anyway....
Sooo.... re-regulating a Sabatti .400 or .450, or laying ribs on a Baikal .45-70, will probably always be easier.

If you already have a good donor shotgun, then OK, but to go looking for a cheap one to sleeve to .45-70 when the Baikals are sitting right there for under a grand, well.....!

Having said that, donor shotguns need to be robust. Pretty-much what TennHillBilly said, but look for a pigeon or waterfowl gun, NOT a game gun. IMHO length of action bar, length of front lump, width of the lumps, and width/height of standing breech will dictate potential far more than whether it has a cross-bolt, or side-clips, or not.

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Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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Birdhunter50
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Reged: 03/06/07
Posts: 815
Loc: Iowa,U.S.A.
Re: newbie looking for donor shotgun [Re: ducmarc]
      #250836 - 21/07/14 11:15 PM

It has been my experience that Pawn Shops are poor places to look for gun bargains. First of all, many guns that are pawned have something wrong with them to begin with and that can add to the cost of the conversion. Second, the pawn shop owners usually don't know that much about the guns they have and they are almost always priced too high for what they are.

I encourage you to go ahead with your plan to convert a gun but you need to realise that it is something of a long project requiring lots of work and effort and a serious investment in parts and labor. If you don't have a metal lathe you will either need to buy one or better yet, find a guy who owns one and really knows how to run it. Pay him to help you with the monoblock and the barrels.

If you have not had any experience soldering steel parts together, you will want to find some scrap steel to practice on and learn to do it well. Keeping everything clean and well fluxed is absolutely manditory if you are going to be successful with this project. Be sure that all parts to be soldered are joined and fitted as closely as possible. Buy some Hi Force 44 solder from Brownells and learn to use it well. Be sure all your parts are tinned with solder, including all the surfaces between the barrels, before you try to put things together. (Tinning them helps to prevent later rusting between the barrels).

Use the acid based flux that comes with the solder to start with, but after getting all your surfaces tinned, you need to wash down everything well in very hot soapy water to get off all the acid flux residue. When you get ready to solder everythig up, use rosen based flux to do the final soldering, it is non acidic and won't rust all the parts.

This may sound complicated but it is just one part of building a double conversion. Fitting the parts and holding them together during construction is the hard part. Just be sure you are willing to follow through with the build before you start, otherwise you will be out a ton of time and money.

If you hit a wall where you can't figure something out, quit right there and seek out advice from someone that knows. Small errors can usually be fixed or worked around, but if you continue to work while you are frustrated, you will likely continue on to wreck the whole thing beyond repair. Good luck with your project. Bob

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ducmarc
.400 member


Reged: 14/07/14
Posts: 1207
Loc: fla
Re: newbie looking for donor shotgun [Re: Birdhunter50]
      #250869 - 22/07/14 01:42 PM

points well taken. i've built a couple of bolt guns and a mg 42 semi. have a pretty good 12" atlas lathe . i sold my mill a fews years back and this gives me a reason to buy another.not that that qualifies me but looks like a nice little challenge.if it comes down to it i have a friend that has a cnc machine shop but twisting his arm to write the program would be the issue. still i think i may buy a russian 45-70 to start. then work on a custom gun from there.

--------------------
'killed by death' Lemmy.. ' boil the dog ' Elvis Manywounds "my best friend is my magnum forty four" hank willams the third.

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BillfromOregon
.333 member


Reged: 27/10/04
Posts: 254
Loc: Sweetwater, by God Texas
Re: newbie looking for donor shotgun [Re: ducmarc]
      #256105 - 31/10/14 09:30 AM

Ducmarc, did you ever find a proper donor and proceed? I'm without skills, but have gained a lot reading Ellis Brown's book, "Building Double Rifles on Shotgun Actions." He is also a very helpful gentleman.

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