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AfricanBigGameTrails
.224 member


Reged: 15/06/14
Posts: 12
Loc: Hoedspruit, South Africa
Heym, Merkel, Chapuis of Krieghoff. Which is best and WHY?
      #249180 - 18/06/14 09:34 AM

Greetings Lads,

I'm considering buying a pair of new SxS double rifles, and the two caliber's I'm looking at are 9,3x74R and 7x57R.

I don't know much about the four rifle makers listed above, so I'm calling on the forum to try and get some feedback from owners and users who have first hand experience of these four makes of double rifle.

If you think one name stands out above the others let me know, but please substantiate your answer, give me a reason why that name is better or worse then the others. (and sorry guys, but "Because I have one" is not a good enough reason… ha ha ha ;-).

This thread is not meant to start wars (I know we can all get very protective over our favorite things), I'm simply looking for facts and good advise.
Tell me the good the bad and the ugly so I can make an informed decision.

Many thanks
Pete.

PS: I really like Krieghoffs manual cocking system, makes a lot of sense!

--------------------
Walk quietly, but carry a big stick!


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Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Heym, Merkel, Chapuis of Krieghoff. Which is best and WHY? [Re: AfricanBigGameTrails]
      #249184 - 18/06/14 12:24 PM

Your question is somewhat timely, while not specifically answering your immediate question, there was just a thread or two on these manufacturers products you may want to check out in the double rifles section.....

As in most things in life, opinions vary..the cocking system you described is loved by some and loathed by others..I personally don't mind it..


Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..


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Rell
.375 member


Reged: 03/12/04
Posts: 642
Loc: Oyster Bay, NY, USA
Re: Heym, Merkel, Chapuis of Krieghoff. Which is best and WHY? [Re: Ripp]
      #249187 - 18/06/14 01:52 PM

No reason to by a pair. Just do a two barrel set.

I did not like the " Germanic" stocks on the Merkel and Heym. The Kriegoff safety is really a cocking piece and not a safety.

That leaves the Chapuis and Vernon-carron. Chapuis makes their small frame SxS in 9.3x74r and 7x57r. Their medium frame is made in 9.3x74r and 7x65r.

I choose the Chapuis based on price, I could get a two barrell set in a Chapuis for what a single caliburs VC gun costs.

Doubles are very subjective, try shooting one from each manufacturer and by the one you like the best.

--------------------
450-400, 9.3x74r and 7x65r.


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Jaguarhunter
.300 member


Reged: 23/04/11
Posts: 246
Loc: Germany
Re: Heym, Merkel, Chapuis of Krieghoff. Which is best and WHY? [Re: Rell]
      #249217 - 19/06/14 06:07 AM

I did not like the " Germanic" stocks on the Merkel and Heym.

You can have an english-style stock on both too.


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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39885
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Heym, Merkel, Chapuis. Krieghoff, or Verney-Carron [Re: AfricanBigGameTrails]
      #249230 - 19/06/14 03:48 PM

Quote:

Greetings Lads,

I'm considering buying a pair of new SxS double rifles, and the two caliber's I'm looking at are 9,3x74R and 7x57R.

I don't know much about the four rifle makers listed above, so I'm calling on the forum to try and get some feedback from owners and users who have first hand experience of these four makes of double rifle.

If you think one name stands out above the others let me know, but please substantiate your answer, give me a reason why that name is better or worse then the others. (and sorry guys, but "Because I have one" is not a good enough reason… ha ha ha ;-).

This thread is not meant to start wars (I know we can all get very protective over our favorite things), I'm simply looking for facts and good advise.
Tell me the good the bad and the ugly so I can make an informed decision.

Many thanks
Pete.

PS: I really like Krieghoffs manual cocking system, makes a lot of sense!




Hi Pete,

My first point is why a second 9.3x74R? Especially if your current U/O double rifle is not a serious problem, then why not consider a .375 Flanged (Rimmed)? A .375 will allow you to for example hunt buffalo in far more countries than a 9.3 mm. The 9.3mm will have factory ammo available for it however.

If buying a 9.3 (or .375) and a 7mm (consider a 7x65R too, probably more choices available), I would look for a maker who can supply smaller sized actions so the DR is a nice well balanced light rifle suitable for those cartridges. Most makers have one or two action sizes, one usually for sub-.375 and a larger one for .375 and above. Sometimes a third size for extra large cartridges, eg .577 etc. So I would ask makers and sellers about their action sizes. I believe Heym makes six or seven action sizes from when I visited their premises.

Regarding English stocks, many gunmakers will make to order, and as mentioned Heym makes a very nice English style stock and rifle model 88 as well as the standard Germanic styled Model 88. I did not know Merkel does as well which is also good to know.

I do not like the Chapuis stock at all. It is clubby and the fore-end oversized. Many Chapuis owners like their rifles however so it is to individual choice. Most owners I know of own up to the 9.3x74R size. I do not know many owners using them in true big bore calibres.

Many DR 'experts' criticise the safety/decocker on the Krieghoff. I actually think it is a good concept once a person has trained in its use and become thoroughly familiar with it. The ability to carry an uncocked DR with rounds in the chambers much more safely is a great plus especially for a PH who carries a rifle a lot but shoots it little. I do not like carrying a DR broken open, and carrying one without being loaded is slow and possibly stupid. So the better the 'safeties' the better the rifle can be utilised.

I would not say no to a Krieghoff and have considered them in the past, however they DO have a particular Germanic styling which you either like or not. Many do not like their styling.

The Merkels I have seen have been usually .470's and good plain fairly ordinary DRs. Good useful tools of cheapish price. Merkel does make higher standard guns too of course. Their are some features I would want to see on a Merkel I considered which are not always standard - from my experience at least. I would want a Merkel in the smaller cartridges only if the rifle was lighter and handier than the ones I have seen and handled.

You mention four gunmakers. I would add Verney-Carron to the list as well.

I visited their factory a couple of years ago and was very impressed and would have no trouble in buying a rifle from them, and very seriously considered it. I looked very closely at one of their own proprietory cartridges the .375 Verney-Carron, which is quite a fast hot .375 for a DR. The action is made to be suitable for it. Or prehaps a .450/400 or a .577 ... it is always difficult to choose. You would not go wrong if you considered buying a Verney-Carron DR.

I also visited the Chapuis factory for a private tour. Good workmanship rifles many owners are pleased with.

Last year I attended the Heym International Challenge and the year before that visited the factory for the first time. Last year I did preliminary order a rifle in .375 Flanged for them, getting the specs together. Picked out a wood blank. Unfortunately my personal financial circumstances change about that time, and that project is on the hold until those change. The rifle I was looking at ordering would have been a very nice walnut English styled stocked rifle, of slim and very well balanced design, with a number of features I would have to look up to see. Definitely one day it will happen.

I will one day visit Krieghoff and Merkel as well, but have not yet.

I do not own any of these brands, yet. But I have been in your position and looked at them carefully from a buyers point of view. Depending on what one is looking for I have my own preferences. At the moment I would look at Verney-Carron and Heym if choosing a new rifle. I do own a number of DRs - a Jeffery, a Westley Richards, a Cogswell & Harrison, as well as lesser brands.

You usually pay for quality. This goes within a gunmaker ie for additional features, types of sights, stock make and design, wood quality, lots of different features, not just cosmetic ones like engraving, and also definitely pay for quality between gunmaking brands.

Most modern DR owners consider Merkel, Krieghoff and Chapuis at one level and Heym and Verney-Carron at a level above.

There was a comment regarding why not two sets of barrels? Certainly a 9.3 and a 7mm would work OK on one action size. The advantage of two rifles is of course having two rifles setup and readily available at any time. A two barrel set DR would be quite good for travelling and of course cheaper. And best organised when first ordering. But remember the second barrel set may cost around two-thirds of a new rifle - from $7000 and up. But you would need to get quotations yourself.

My last comment is again I think anything a 7mm can do the 9.3mm can do, so I personally would say get a 7mm and a .450/400, considering you already have a 9.33 U/O.

Good luck and have fun in your searching.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"


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Rell
.375 member


Reged: 03/12/04
Posts: 642
Loc: Oyster Bay, NY, USA
Re: Heym, Merkel, Chapuis of Krieghoff. Which is best and WHY? [Re: NitroX]
      #249241 - 19/06/14 10:30 PM

NitroX,

As always well said. Usually after you have posted so completely I find I have nothing to add. This time I think I can comment on the Chapuis part of the discussion.

I hear you on Chapuis being a touch "overstocked", not sure if that's a word or not but it has never stopped me from using it before. The reason I like the Chapuis stocked rifles is that I'm 6 foot 5 inches tall and 250 lbs, they just fit me better and fill my hands. With a 16.25 inch LOP they seem well balanced and very well scaled.

I own a two barrel set Chapuis rifle in 9.3x74r and 7x65r. The 9.3 shoots like a dream while the 7 is a scatter gun. I have not sent it back to reregulate, because I do not want to live without the 9.3. Oddly enough I also have a Chapuis in 450-400.

The 9.3 and 7 costs looked like this;
9.3 rifle $8,000
-3x wood
-color cased receiver
-65% scroll engraving
-QR 30mm rings and bases
-Leupold vx6 1-6 red dot scope
Set of 7mm barrels $3,500
-barrels
-forend
-QR rings and bases
-Leupold vx6 1-12 scope
-16.25 LOP

The 450-400
$12,000
-3x wood
-French grey receiver 50% scroll, buffalo on bottom of receiver
-QR rings and bases
-Leupold vx6 1-6 red dot scope
-16 LOP

If I had it to do over again I would forget the 7x65r set of barrels and buy a complete rifle on the tiny Chapuis action in 7x57r.

--------------------
450-400, 9.3x74r and 7x65r.


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