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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Building Double Rifles & Gunsmithing
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EDELWEISS
.375 member


Reged: 22/11/05
Posts: 608
Loc: Gettysburg
45-70 to 45-120
      #247203 - 09/05/14 07:21 AM

I have a 45-70 Bakial SxS that I use when I don't want to take my Merkels out in the rain etc. I tend to think of the Bakials as the AKs of Double rifles--they aint pretty but they do get the job done. The 45-70 SxS is my third Bakial O/U 30-06 and a SxS 30-06. If you keep the AK reference in mind, then they are fine guns in that venue.

The 45-70 SxS is rated for modern loadings but I question the "Magnum" (turn your 45-70 into a 458Win). Honestly the 45-70 is fine, I just WANT something different. I really like the looks of the 45-120. It just screams to be used in a Double Rifle. I recall reading about someone rechambering a Pedersoli SxS hammer gun from 45-70 to 45-120; but no specifics.

What issues would I face with lengthening the Bakial from 45-70 to 45-120? Id keep the loads mild. Im more interested in the looks of the longer cases than turbo power.

--------------------
If it's not custom, it's just borrowed

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tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: 45-70 to 45-120 [Re: EDELWEISS]
      #247207 - 09/05/14 08:08 AM

This has been covered extensively here and in other communities - the Baikal 45-70 sxs double rifle is not at all rated (proofed) for high-performance loading

There are other issues - most notably the step in barrel diameter, which basically prohibit the consideration to lengthen the chambers past standard 45-70 length

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26992
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 45-70 to 45-120 [Re: tinker]
      #247254 - 09/05/14 11:59 PM

The Baikals are proofed for loads to 32,000psi, apparently.

At pressures around 28,000psi - the 3 1/4 case will drive

350gr. to 2,021fps,
405gr. to 2,012fps
500gr. to 1,809fps

All with lead bullets in 24" bl. and all just barely over what the same pressures will do in the 2 1/0" case.
This according to Hodgdon's annual manual.

At the same pressures in the 2.1" case, Hodgdon lists

300gr.Jacketed HP at 2,143fps
350gr.jacketed FP at 2,036fps
405gr.jacketed FP at 1,859fps (26,500cup)

Lee's listing for the 2.1" and lead:

405gr. 1,817fps @ 27,400psi
420gr. 1,763fps @ 27,400psi
440gr. 1,652fps @ 27,300psi
460gr. 1,636fps @ 27,100psi
500gr. 1,510fps @ 27,900psi

Lee's jacketed listings for jacketed 2.1" case

300gr. 2,125fps @ 28,700psi
350gr. 1,890fps @ 27,800psi
400gr. 1,859fps @ 26,500psi
500gr. 1,510fps @ 27,900psi

Speer's .45/70 data listed for the lever guns, according to their text says they held pressures to 28,000cup - which in the .45/70 is the same number as PSI.
Their data shows over 2,000fps with 400gr. jacketed.

I really don't think there is a lot of difference in the longer case when dealing with these lower pressures. There is some difference, but not a lot.

I would not do it, personally, due to the taper of the barrels and possible troubles with regulation. Once done, it is done. Reducing loads in the longer case presents a problem with excessive case capacity and having to use case fillers.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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gungadoug
.333 member


Reged: 13/08/12
Posts: 285
Loc: NM
Re: 45-70 to 45-120 [Re: DarylS]
      #247342 - 11/05/14 11:06 PM

In addition, the longer case is actually a detriment to performance with any powders except black. That extra case length is just too much volume for modern smokeless powders except at true 450 nitro levels! Sure, fillers can be used, but that raises the ugly possibilities of ringed chambers, etc. I think if you do this, and you may get away with it, you will wish you had not.
Douug

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Flying_Y_Farms
.224 member


Reged: 01/10/14
Posts: 8
Loc: Oregon, Klamath
Re: 45-70 to 45-120 [Re: gungadoug]
      #254916 - 09/10/14 05:43 PM

being the owner of a bakial there is no way I would go 45-120 unless planning shooting black powder only. I am loading 45-120 to 450 NE levels I one of my rifles but it is a very well built Merkle conversion, we use 45-120 because the components are much cheaper than 450 NE with the same performance. I would not even think about it, t to mention the recoil from such a light rifle.

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