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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mauser Discussion Forum

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headoftheholler
.275 member

Reged: 02/12/13
Posts: 68
Loc: United States

Need some help with this Mauser build
#243203 - 03/03/14 11:42 PM

Just started gathering some parts for a rifle build this summer, 1909 action, double set triggers, lever release floorplate ect. Problem I am having is with the triggers, they functioned fine and I foolishly removed the top screw that retains the spring to clean the internals prior to case hardening the triggerguard. I reassembled and now the front trigger will trip the sear as it did before but when I pull the set trigger it sets but releases both triggers at the same time when I pull the front trigger now instead of just the front trigger. Also I noticed that the rear trigger will now "set" without being connected to the kick off piece. Any help?

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Dumprat
.300 member

Reged: 20/02/14
Posts: 205
Loc: Vancouver island bc.

Re: Need some help with this Mauser build [Re: headoftheholler]
#243207 - 04/03/14 01:23 AM

I realize that double triggers are a traditional European thing but fool with them? You can get a single timney that works better for about $60.

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kuduae
.400 member

Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1792
Loc: middle of Germany

Re: Need some help with this Mauser build [Re: headoftheholler]
#243208 - 04/03/14 01:31 AM

Your description sounds like the double set trigger is working as it should: Pulling the front trigger alone rises it's rear end against the kickoff lever and pushes it up, releasing the sear. The set trigger function follows. pulling back the rear trigger, in fact a cocking lever, against the pressure of the set trigger mainspring, pulls it's front top end away from the kickoff until it is arrested by the detent in the front trigger. Now, on touching the front trigger, the rear one is released and flies forward/up, powered by the spring. Inertia pushes it up until it hits the kickoff and releases it. In using the set function, the front trigger does not even touch the kickoff. From this basic double set trigger function results a little known danger: If you push the rear trigger forward instead of pulling it back, the gun will fire too, often with less pressure than needed when pulling the unset front trigger.

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26994
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: Need some help with this Mauser build [Re: kuduae]
#243214 - 04/03/14 03:47 AM

Double set, single throw
Double set, double throw

"Double" simply means there are 2 triggers.

1st - means 'triggers' must be set in order to fire the rifle

2/d - means the rifle can be fired merely by pulling the front trigger, or the 'triggers' may be "set" to fire the rifle by then pulling the front trigger.

I do not see where there is a problem with this function.
When a set trigger is 'pulled' the front trigger kick backwards away from your finger and the rear trigger kicks forward as the spring tension causes it - usually - NP, as it must do this when the tension/contact with the sear/tumbler is removed.

Some people I've noted on other forums do not 'like' the way a set (front) trigger functions as it jumps back from their trigger finger - I've never figured out why they don't like this, but that's their deal - it's the normal function of set triggers and I love set triggers- have since my BRNO Fox I had when I was 20yrs. old - double throw, of course.

Single throw double set triggers, common back in the 18th and 19th century are a pain in the ass, especially when they make you bring the cock (hammer) to full bent, first. If you want to "unbend" (uncock) the cock (hammer), you must practically catch it when can cause accidents if the cock slips - we hates single throw double set triggers.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Dumprat
.300 member

Reged: 20/02/14
Posts: 205
Loc: Vancouver island bc.

Re: Need some help with this Mauser build [Re: DarylS]
#243215 - 04/03/14 03:58 AM

Sounds like a bloody nightmare in any sort of fast shot situation.

The old two stage military trigger with a polish job would be an upgrade from the sounds of it.

I have shot a couple of double triggers but never the second type you mentioned Daryl.

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headoftheholler
.275 member

Reged: 02/12/13
Posts: 68
Loc: United States

Re: Need some help with this Mauser build [Re: Dumprat]
#243222 - 04/03/14 05:04 AM

Quote:

I realize that double triggers are a traditional European thing but fool with them? You can get a single timney that works better for about $60.

For me, appearance is just as important in some builds as function. In this case the style of rifle I have envisioned wouldn't look right with a Timney, hence the classic dual setup.
Besides, they still work great (when I haven't tinkered with them) on a snap shot say at running game you just simply pull the forward trigger and it goes bang, with a more focused rested shot the set trigger gives you that few ounce trigger pull.

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headoftheholler
.275 member

Reged: 02/12/13
Posts: 68
Loc: United States

Re: Need some help with this Mauser build [Re: kuduae]
#243223 - 04/03/14 05:11 AM

Quote:

Your description sounds like the double set trigger is working as it should: Pulling the front trigger alone rises it's rear end against the kickoff lever and pushes it up, releasing the sear. The set trigger function follows. pulling back the rear trigger, in fact a cocking lever, against the pressure of the set trigger mainspring, pulls it's front top end away from the kickoff until it is arrested by the detent in the front trigger. Now, on touching the front trigger, the rear one is released and flies forward/up, powered by the spring. Inertia pushes it up until it hits the kickoff and releases it. In using the set function, the front trigger does not even touch the kickoff. From this basic double set trigger function results a little known danger: If you push the rear trigger forward instead of pulling it back, the gun will fire too, often with less pressure than needed when pulling the unset front trigger.

When I pull the front trigger alone it does in fact rise up, engages the kickoff sear and will fire.
When I pull the rear trigger (the set trigger) it pulls downward and engages, I then pull the front trigger (very light pull as it should be) the rear releases but does not come high enough to trip the kickoff sear, as if the travel is too short.

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Igorrock
.400 member

Reged: 01/03/07
Posts: 1649
Loc: Finland

Re: Need some help with this Mauser build [Re: headoftheholler]
#243225 - 04/03/14 05:52 AM

Have you done any adjustment to the set screw between triggers ?

--------------------
http://promaakari.wordpress.com/

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headoftheholler
.275 member

Reged: 02/12/13
Posts: 68
Loc: United States

Re: Need some help with this Mauser build [Re: Igorrock]
#243226 - 04/03/14 05:59 AM

Quote:

Have you done any adjustment to the set screw between triggers ?

No, but to be honest with you I don't fully understand what function it serves or how to use it.

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Igorrock
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Reged: 01/03/07
Posts: 1649
Loc: Finland

Re: Need some help with this Mauser build [Re: headoftheholler]
#243228 - 04/03/14 07:08 AM

Turn it back and front and look what it makes to triggers function.

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http://promaakari.wordpress.com/

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26994
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: Need some help with this Mauser build [Re: Igorrock]
#243232 - 04/03/14 12:04 PM

The function as you noted is correct. Merely pull the front trigger and the fun fires. It seems to have been adjusted to not function correctly as a set trigger. After being set, the lever must jump up HARD to kick the sear loose of the cocking piece.

Sounds to me as if the kicker (main spring) spring is turned (loosened) too soft to kick the lever up far enough to fire the action.

I have a spare double set, single throw trigger if anyone wants to send me some $20.00 for it. It, of course, is a ML trigger and is quite period correct for about 1800 to 1830, as far as I know. Original -That I don't know either, hence the low price which includes shipping - HA! They are a pain in the posterior, trust me.

The Mauser double set, double throw triggers are wonderful triggers and beautifully made, usually.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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