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Hunting >> Hunting in Australia, NZ & the South Pacific
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TOBY458
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Reged: 23/01/14
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Loc: Georgia, USA
Gun Ownership In Australia
      #241688 - 04/02/14 09:29 AM

Here's a question for the Ausie guys on here. How easy "or hard" is it to own a rifle in Australia? It looks like the USA will eventually go to some more stringent gun laws. I was just wondering what we may be in for. Can you own any handguns there at all? I believe I read that you can't have auto shotguns or rifles of any kind. Is that correct? How about self defense guns in your home?

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Claydog
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Re: Gun Ownership In Australia [Re: TOBY458]
      #241694 - 04/02/14 11:29 AM

Self defence is not listed as a reason to own a gun in Oz. All our firearms have to be locked in a certified gun safe. If you shot an intruder you would most likely be grilled how you accessed you gun and ammo so quickly! Auto rifles and shotguns are only allowed on a special licence. Handguns are very tightly controlled and I think you have to be a member of a club or a collector to own one but I don't know too much regarding these. Each state may also differ slightly. It is not to difficult to own a type a or b firearm but you have to apply for a purchase permit to buy one which may take 14 days or however long it takes while they do background checks etc.

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TOBY458
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Re: Gun Ownership In Australia [Re: Claydog]
      #241697 - 04/02/14 12:05 PM

Sounds like a pain in the a$$ to me! It's ridiculous what most countries put their citizens through regarding guns. It's simply a matter of the government wanting control over you. Not public safety!
What are type a and b firearms? I assume bolt action rifles, double and single rifles and shotguns?
Can you defend yourself with a firearm? Or will you be arrested like they say can happen in England?

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Claydog
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Re: Gun Ownership In Australia [Re: TOBY458]
      #241700 - 04/02/14 12:48 PM

Class A is air rifles, non self loading rimfires, shotguns other than pump or auto, Class B is Muzzle loaders & centre fires other than self loaders. You could defend yourself with a firearm but by god you would have some explaining to do. I was going bush for work one time and broke down and had my vehicle towed back to town while I got a lift. My car was stolen from the mechanics and I told the police there was a shotgun behind the seat I had been taking with me. Man was I put through the ringer. I was in the police station for 4 hours giving statements and if it wasn't for a common sense sergeant who knows what would have happened. One guy was set on cancelling my shooters licence. Our laws can be a pain in the arse but in a country full of do gooders it can be tough.

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Well_Well_Well
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Reged: 03/01/07
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Re: Gun Ownership In Australia [Re: Claydog]
      #241713 - 04/02/14 06:16 PM

Look up UN Agenda 21.

There are various goals for agenda 21 specifying restrictions and processes to be put in place that spell out pretty much what we have.

It is for this reason that Australia is the only country in the world where there are 3 state level politicians elected on an overtly pro shooting platform. Not enough and some federal members would be nice, but indicative that shooters are orepared to vote according to their beliefs.

It's slowly coming back, but the damage done in 96 was massive and will probably never be properly undone.

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Claydog
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Re: Gun Ownership In Australia [Re: Well_Well_Well]
      #241714 - 04/02/14 06:45 PM

I see Queenslands government was talking about relaxing some of that states gun laws the other day and the outcry started.

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RLI
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Reged: 01/10/03
Posts: 534
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Gun Ownership In Australia [Re: TOBY458]
      #241717 - 04/02/14 06:53 PM

The "average" shooter can own class A & B meaning rimfire/centrefire but no semi auto's or pump shottie's and up to 15 in Victoria any more then you need a security system in place plus suitable safe

Class C, special occupation pest controllers/farmers/collectors or due to medical reasons a semi auto/pump shotgun has to be used but you need a doctors letter

Class D,centrfire semi auto pest controllers only/collectors but not working

class H, handguns must be a member shooting club or collector can not be used for self defence or hunting BUT in NT you can use safari operators handgun.

Class E, full auto, mortars,cannons etc you need a dealers licence or collectors but must be rendered not working

but the police can give a licence to someone for any class but at their discretion

cheers
Steve

--------------------
"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid." — John Wayne

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Rule303
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Re: Gun Ownership In Australia [Re: TOBY458]
      #241718 - 04/02/14 07:09 PM

Re self defence. In Aust if you have any item for self defence the police say you premeditated your actions toward the offender so is murder if you kill a person. The way you are required to store the firearms and ammo would make it very hard to justify having a firearm ready in time to defend yourself. Yes there are situations that legit self defence with a firearm can happen but I won't go into them on an open forum.

You are allowed to defend your self and killing another person is justified if you are in immediate fear of your or another persons life or suffering grevious bodily harm. This is short & simplified version.

Handguns generaly require that the handgun be stored in a locked and bolted down safe. Different states have different requirements in this regard. Most require you to attend and participate in 6 competitions at your home club each year. 8 attendences for more than one handgun. Minimum barrel lenght and max magazine capacity apply. Attending competetions at other clubs anywhere do not count towards your 6 attendances at home club.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: Gun Ownership In Australia [Re: Rule303]
      #241724 - 04/02/14 09:59 PM

Self defense is not a legitimate reason or valid purpose of owning a firearm or obtaining a firearm's licence.

Different states have slightly different laws.

In SA the laws changed that a person may use reasonable force that they personally feel is needed to protect themselves. From an earlier "common man in the street type belief" to their belief personally. After this the cops tried to charge three persons who shot a person in self defence and lost all three cases. I assume these laws and common law verdicts are still in force. So in SA I would have no problem in shooting someone if I personally felt my life was in danger and believed shooting them was the necessary way to protect my own life, family and/or property.

Regarding locking up in a safe firearms and ammunition. It is common to keep these unlocked returning or going on a trip, cleaning or working on them etc. Also it is in your control if you are home at the time.

No legal advice is given above or intended to be given.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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TOBY458
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Reged: 23/01/14
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Loc: Georgia, USA
Re: Gun Ownership In Australia [Re: NitroX]
      #241784 - 05/02/14 02:47 PM

It sounds like a lot of red tape to me. I guess we in the US had better enjoy what we have while it lasts...

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Well_Well_Well
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Reged: 03/01/07
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Re: Gun Ownership In Australia [Re: TOBY458]
      #241793 - 05/02/14 07:00 PM

Quote:

It sounds like a lot of red tape to me. I guess we in the US had better enjoy what we have while it lasts...



And fight like hell against any bastard that wants to take it away.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Gun Ownership In Australia [Re: TOBY458]
      #241797 - 05/02/14 07:19 PM

Quote:

It sounds like a lot of red tape to me. I guess we in the US had better enjoy what we have while it lasts...



No red tape at all. If you read what I wrote, the scenario is actually quite reasonable. Use the force a person personally feels is necessary to defend themselves. And stick to that scenario. If the same as the actual real situation, then it also means we don't have the dickhead redneck wanker gun nuts shooting everything in sight - out of paranoid "self defense" delusions.

I actually find it amazing how much discussion there is on some forums about the "need to carry firearms for self defense". It is as if some of the nuts are eager and waiting to use firearms in self defense. I remember asking on one forum a decade ago, where 100% of discussion were self defense, concealed carry, how to answer the front door with gun in hand sort of stuff, who actually had a real actual event which required a firearm for self defense purposes and there was a deafening silence from these nutcases.

Some might find it interesting that in Australia the vast majority of police officers never have to draw their handgun even once in actual use (ie not training) during their entire careers. Says something I think.


I however believe firearms should be able to be owned for self defense purposes.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Don
.275 member


Reged: 01/12/08
Posts: 67
Loc: California
Re: Gun Ownership In Australia [Re: NitroX]
      #241811 - 06/02/14 12:59 AM

I guess from what you are telling me is that a Ruger 10/22 or an M1 Garand is illegal. And even a 1911 Auto or a 357 revolver with a 6 inch barrel is very difficult to own? Of course even asking to own a Steyr AUG or an L1A1 (FAL) will most likely get you sent to jail.

Also does anyone know of the whereabouts of Rebecca Peters who helped bring about this sad state of affairs?

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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
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Re: Gun Ownership In Australia [Re: NitroX]
      #241814 - 06/02/14 02:23 AM

Quote:

Quote:

It sounds like a lot of red tape to me. I guess we in the US had better enjoy what we have while it lasts...



No red tape at all. If you read what I wrote, the scenario is actually quite reasonable. Use the force a person personally feels is necessary to defend themselves. And stick to that scenario. If the same as the actual real situation, then it also means we don't have the dickhead redneck wanker gun nuts shooting everything in sight - out of paranoid "self defense" delusions.

I actually find it amazing how much discussion there is on some forums about the "need to carry firearms for self defense". It is as if some of the nuts are eager and waiting to use firearms in self defense. I remember asking on one forum a decade ago, where 100% of discussion were self defense, concealed carry, how to answer the front door with gun in hand sort of stuff, who actually had a real actual event which required a firearm for self defense purposes and there was a deafening silence from these nutcases.

Some might find it interesting that in Australia the vast majority of police officers never have to draw their handgun even once in actual use (ie not training) during their entire careers. Says something I think.


I however believe firearms should be able to be owned for self defense purposes.




I have drawn a weapon twice for self defense...

Once driving down the road in the middle of the day through a native american reservation..van full of what I presumed to be drunk locals decided to run me off the road after I went by them and they were standing along the highway draining their beer ...cans laying in the grass as I drove by...--they gave chase..I was in a little car..pulled along side of me and kept moving over closer to my lane--I hit the brakes and they went by...they pulled over and I went by--within minutes they were behind me again..at which time I grabbed the Ruger Security Six .357 under my seat and waited ..when they pulled along side..I waived the gun back and forth to make sure the passengers saw it..they picked up speed and I never saw them again..wierd..

ON another occasion during a New Years celebratin on Las Vegas, a gal and I were walking back to our hotel on one of the side streets at about 3AM..3 guys of another race saw us and started jay walking directly toward us..I pulled my handgun from by concealed holster and made sure they saw it..they did an complete about face and headed back from where they came..again wierd...

On another occassion when I was living in ND in the country, an elderly couple about an hour away were killed in their home and had their throats cut. Everyone was in a heightened state of alert..I has spent a few days riding horses with the local law enforcement people checking out abandoned farms etc..nothing..then one night while we were already sleeping..about 2AM..I had the bedroom window open.heard a voice in the trees..awoke my wife and handed her the handgun in the nightstand..I grabbed my AR-15 and walked to the kithen to look outside as the yardlight was on...saw 2 guys coming to the door..they knocked..I flipped on the outside light and told them to step back from the screen door which opened to the outside..I used my right foot to push it open and greeted them with me holding my gun in their general direction..they immediatly put up their hands and said they were drinking and hit the ditch..I had them sit back to back and called my neighbor Chuck..who is a red neck with a high lifted Ford truck..he come down and we pulled them out together just in case..had them ride in the box, not in the cab on the way to their car..I am certain they had a few stories to tell their friends..but hey, better safe than sorry..

I carry often...have taken shooting classes, self defense shooting classes and taking another this spring..BUT, Pray to GOD I never have to shoot anyone EVER...as I am certain it would ultimately be hell in court and otherwise...However if my family is ever threatened by an intruder in my home, given the choice, that POS will be carried out and not walking..had a good friend who was a retired law officer from Florida..he always said better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6..

IMHO, NO goverment has the right to tell you how to defend yourself in your home.

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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Don
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Reged: 01/12/08
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Re: Gun Ownership In Australia [Re: Ripp]
      #241831 - 06/02/14 07:52 AM

"NO goverment has the right to tell you how to defend yourself in your home."
I agree it is a God given right!
One of the almost universal restrictions on slaves and domestic livestock is on self defence. A farmer or a slave master could care less who was in the right. Only that his property is not damaged. That tells you what people like John Howard or Tony Blair thinks about us. We are just livestock or slaves.

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TOBY458
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Reged: 23/01/14
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Re: Gun Ownership In Australia [Re: Don]
      #241835 - 06/02/14 11:08 AM

I hear stories daily on the news where armed citizens could've prevented a crime or saved a life. If you are a responsible citizen you have every right to carry a firearm to defend yourself. ESPECIALLY in your own home! Please don't let your government brain wash you into thinking handgun owners are "rednecks" as you say, and thugs. I actually never carry a gun in public myself. But in my home, I have one at the ready. And to say that I'm encouraging or trying to provoke someone by carrying a gun is off the mark as well. It's simply a matter of personal safety.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: Gun Ownership In Australia [Re: Ripp]
      #241845 - 06/02/14 06:01 PM

Quote:

IMHO, NO goverment has the right to tell you how to defend yourself in your home.

Ripp



Key word is "defend".

As I said "not red tape", if you think you need to shoot someone to defend yourself, your family or your property, then that is justifiable.

AND irrespective of whether it is in your home or in a public place. One of the three cases I mentioned in an earlier post, was in a petrol station, a man happened to have his target shooting pistol or he was an off duty security guard. In either case he was not legally able to carry a handgun at the time. The fuel station was robbed, and he shot the armed robber as he ran past him after holding up the counter. He was acquitted of murder or unlawful wounding. He would have argued he felt personally endangered and perhaps he was carrying his handgun as he didn't want to leave it unattended in his car when paying for the fuel. (NOTE - definitely not providing any sort of legal advice here! )

If someone knocks on your door, it opens by itself, not being latched properly, and he walks in saying "hello, is anyone home?" and is promptly shot because he is a stranger in your house, Is that defence or murder. Obviously not defendable at all, but murder or manslaughter. (the your, you etc is meant generally for the reader)

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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underlever
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Re: Gun Ownership In Australia [Re: NitroX]
      #241864 - 06/02/14 10:18 PM

I find it a constant source of amazement how much is written and talked about in regard to the right to use firearms to defend yourself. I use an air rifle to protect the vegie patch and thats about it.
When I need a firearm in the lounge room to keep the rat bags at bay, gun laws will be the least of my concern. When or if it gets to this stage in Australia, we will be pretty much stuffed already.
Our current gun laws do rub some up the wrong way, but I don't get much hindered by them at all. Road signs don't get the crap shot out of them like they used to and those who are genuine about taking part in the shooting sports can.
Part of my income is derived through working in the firearms industry and I hunt just about every weekend, so I do have a vested interest in what happens in regard to gun laws, so please don't think I'm pro " no guns ".

regards,
Underlever.

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Ripp
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Re: Gun Ownership In Australia [Re: NitroX]
      #241872 - 07/02/14 12:15 AM

Quote:

Quote:

IMHO, NO goverment has the right to tell you how to defend yourself in your home.

Ripp



Key word is "defend".

If someone knocks on your door, it opens by itself, not being latched properly, and he walks in saying "hello, is anyone home?" and is promptly shot because he is a stranger in your house, Is that defence or murder.



What if its your ex-wife???

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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TOBY458
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Reged: 23/01/14
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Re: Gun Ownership In Australia [Re: Ripp]
      #241876 - 07/02/14 01:21 AM

Maybe our gang members are just meaner than your garden rodents.....;)

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eljefedouble
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Reged: 23/04/06
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Loc: Vic, Australia
Re: Gun Ownership In Australia [Re: TOBY458]
      #241931 - 07/02/14 04:01 PM

Quote:

Maybe our gang members are just meaner than your garden rodents.....;)



Our garden rodents :

http://www.google.com.au/search?q=images...CbDaD_RkDXMM%3A

--------------------
"it dont mean a thing, if it aint got no zing"
"Toa bunduki mkubwa"

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TOBY458
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Reged: 23/01/14
Posts: 206
Loc: Georgia, USA
Re: Gun Ownership In Australia [Re: eljefedouble]
      #241984 - 08/02/14 01:25 PM

What caliber does it take to stop one of those??? I bet they would scoff at a wimpy little 375! Maybe a new caliber is order. Maybe a 475 #3 Roo Express. Better make it a triple barrel as well. 24" barrels, so it won't get hung up in the brush. Engraved with a killer roo on the action body. No sling studs, because you will always want to be at the ready when one of those savages step out! A 2" Old English recoil pad to deal with the recoil if you should need to fire all three barrels at once. Talley scope bases recessed into the barrel rib, with an optional 4x14x50mm scope just in case you are not the type that likes to get close, and let the roo decide how he is to die.
A beautiful AAA walnut stock, with an extra Tupperware stock just in case you need to track your roo through a swampy korongo. And lastly, and this is a biggy.....the courage to go in alone with no PH backup. Now THAT may be the toughest order to fill.

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kamilaroi
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Re: Gun Ownership In Australia [Re: TOBY458]
      #241992 - 08/02/14 09:30 PM

The Country Club roos are the meanest of all...

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