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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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mehulkamdar
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.
Jeffery Question
      #24034 - 13/01/05 02:43 PM

I remember reading somewhere that W J Jeffery made a snap forward type underlever action for their double rifles that the firm considered a considerable improvement over both the toplever as well as over the rotating type underlever. If I remember right, one of Austyn's books has a picture of one.

Does anyone make this action today and did it offer any real advantages over the more conventional top and underlevers or was it a marketing gimmick?

Thanks and if someone owns one of these please post pictures. I am sure that I wouldn't be the only one drooling over the pictures.

Best wishes and good hunting!



--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Jeffery Question [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #24037 - 13/01/05 03:25 PM


mehulkamdar

Jeffrey "sold" guns with a Push Underlever Snap Action - I have only ever seen it on
the 600 Nitro's but that doesn't mean it wasn't used on other guns.

I say "sold" as Jeffrey didn't make that many guns (if any ???).

The 600 Nitro I have handled was quite functional and easy to use - in fact I quite
liked it.

Don't have any pictures I'm afraid.


500 Nitro

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470Rigby
.333 member


Reged: 23/02/04
Posts: 328
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Re: Jeffery Question [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #24042 - 13/01/05 11:09 PM

Mehul
This is the Jeffery 600 NE that features in Austyn's book;


and this is what Jeffery had to say about the action in a contemporary adverisement;


Actually, snap underlevers were quite common before the Scott patent toplever became universal. Most were "levercockers"; that is, the forward motion of the lever was used to cock the locks as well as manipulate the bolting system, such as on this Rigby .500 BPE Double Rifle;

This rifle operates on similar principles as the Woodward "The Automatic", and has a tumbler-blocking safety mechanism. Other snap underlevers simply operated the bolting system, and relied on the fall of the barrels to cock the action. The most famous example of this was the Purdey "Thumbhole" system. Purdey also used a rotary snap underlever system that empoyed a Jones type bolting system and a solid action bar for it's inherently greater strength.

A Jeffery boxlock .600 NE was resident in Melbourne about 20 years ago, and although I handled it, I can't whether recall that it was a levercocker - I very much doubt it. Perhaps other members can shed some light on this? The only other Jeffery 600 around these parts, reputedly the first ever built, was a stock standard Jones undelever.

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mehulkamdar
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Reged: 09/01/04
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Re: Jeffery Question [Re: 470Rigby]
      #24056 - 14/01/05 03:01 AM

470Rigby,

Thanks. This is a superb way to start the day looking at pictures of beautiful guns.

Would you know if anyone still makes these rifles? I know I would not be able to afford one if they did but I am just curious.

Thanks again and Good Hunting!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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bluedevil
.224 member


Reged: 02/12/04
Posts: 40
Re: Jeffery Question [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #24062 - 14/01/05 04:50 AM

Hey Guys, I once turned down the chance to buy an underlever Jeffery like the one pictured above. It was in 450/400 3-inch and weighed 10 pounds 8 ounces. I also once handled a beautiful Purdey underlever in 465 H&H. Keith

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5284
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: Jeffery Question [Re: 470Rigby]
      #24084 - 14/01/05 09:33 AM

470Rigby,

Great pics of the Jeffery and the Rigby.

I notice that the Rigby also has the famous Bissell rising bite third fastener. I have always thought that system was an elegant way to provide another bite.

But my question: What is the finely checkered apparatus on top of the Rigby's rear tang where one would usually encounter the safety slide? It almost looks like the opener on a Darne shotgun (which I know it's not!)

Regards,
CptCurl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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470Rigby
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Reged: 23/02/04
Posts: 328
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Re: Jeffery Question [Re: CptCurl]
      #24088 - 14/01/05 09:49 AM

CptCrl

That's an extension of the SAFE that "wraps" around the side of the the stock, and falls naturally under the thumb. Probably the best place for a safe(unless you were a "molly-dooker"!). Very elegent solution, and the only one of it's type that I have seen.

Best regards,
470R

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Jeffery Question [Re: 470Rigby]
      #24107 - 14/01/05 02:00 PM

470R,

Does it have an ear that extends out the left side also?

I figured it was some sort of enhanced safety slide button, but I truly have never seen anything like it.

The thumb of a right hand shooter will be on the opposite side of the wrist from where this extension is.

Goes to show, they will invent anything.

Thanks,
CptCurl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Jeffery Question [Re: 470Rigby]
      #24108 - 14/01/05 02:02 PM

470R,

By the way, what is a "molly-dooker"? A new term to me for sure.

Best,
RBS

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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470Rigby
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Reged: 23/02/04
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Re: Jeffery Question [Re: CptCurl]
      #24136 - 14/01/05 09:31 PM

CPtCrl

You would use the expression "Southpaw"!

The origins of the term goes divides neatly into the halves, one for each part of the word;

One’s dukes or dooks are one’s hands, of course, as in the American to duke it out, to fight with the fists. There are two stories about its origin, both of which take it back to London slang of the early to middle part of the nineteenth century. One theory is that an older slang term for the hand was fork, in reference to using the fingers like a pair of tweezers to slip something surreptitiously out of a person’s pocket without them knowing about it. Cockney rhyming slang then converted fork into Duke of York and so, by the usual process of abbreviation, to duke. Some authorities regard this as an over-complex evolution, and suggest that the word is really from Romany, the language of the Rom, or gypsies, in which dukker means to tell fortunes, presumably by palmistry. This theory is itself less than totally convincing.
The other half of the term, molly, seems to be yet another example of the use of that word to mean an effeminate male, as in mollycoddle. The implication seems to have been that anybody left-handed was a bit queer in at least one respect.
There are various spellings for the slang term, including molly-duker, and there’s also a related form, molly-hander. It’s first recorded in Australia in the 1920s.

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470Rigby
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Re: Jeffery Question [Re: CptCurl]
      #24137 - 14/01/05 09:55 PM

In reply to:

Does it have an ear that extends out the left side also?



No - but with the underlever system it seems to naturally fall under the thumb of a right-hander, which it was designed for since the triggers are set accordingly.

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Jeffery Question [Re: 470Rigby]
      #24139 - 14/01/05 11:36 PM

470R,

Thank you for your most interesting explanation.

All you molly-dookers out there take note!

By the way, there is a sharp looking Rigby of this underlever type action that I have been eyeballing on Champlin's website for some time:

Link to Rigby DR

Also a second page of pics:

Rigby second page

The ad gives a good look at this elegant old rendering by Rigby. This one does not have the interesting safety slide.

Best,
CptCurl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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AfricanHunter
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Reged: 01/02/04
Posts: 60
Loc: Nebraska, USA
Re: Jeffery Question [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #24174 - 15/01/05 10:53 AM

Yes, I had a Jeffrey .600 with the under lever action, 24" barrels, prrofed at 110 gr. cordite, it kicked too hard compored to the H&H and Churchill I had at the same time.

I know Jeffrey taunts them as great, but I found them clumsy to use and reload quickly as compared to the H&H or Churchill. I am sure one could get used to it

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DUGABOY1
.400 member


Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA
Re: Jeffery Question [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #24190 - 15/01/05 01:55 PM

In reply to:

I remember reading somewhere that W J Jeffery made a snap forward type underlever action for their double rifles that the firm considered a considerable improvement over both the toplever as well as over the rotating type underlever. If I remember right, one of Austyn's books has a picture of one.




The action type you are refering to is commonly called a "SNAP ACTION" and is usually found only of the larger chamberings, like the 600NE. It is not superior to the top lever, as a fastening system, but was placed down below the trigger guard to avoid the top lever from biteing the web of the hand on fireing the heavy recoiling rifles. In most cases the internal parts are exactly the same as with the top lever. Some did cock the rifle, as well as open the rifle,leaving the barrels free to drop freely, with out haveing to re-cock the rifle.
The under lever that turns to the side is called the "JONES LEVER" , and opperates intirely differently.

In reply to:

Does anyone make this action today and did it offer any real advantages over the more conventional top and underlevers or was it a marketing gimmick?




I'm sure some do on their very large bore doubles, and I know B. Searcy does on his 577NE, 600NE, and 700NE doubles!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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mehulkamdar
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Reged: 09/01/04
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Re: Jeffery Question [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #24311 - 17/01/05 03:15 AM

DUGABOY1,

Thanks. Just saw the underlevers on the Searcy website.

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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