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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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Rusty
.333 member


Reged: 08/02/03
Posts: 464
Loc: Missouri City, Texas
Damascus Barreled Rifles
      #23990 - 13/01/05 01:19 AM

Just curious, has anyone ever seen one? We've all seen the beautiful patterns on old shotguns. I can't recall seeing a rifle? Oh well at my age memory is the second thing to go!

--------------------
Rusty
We band of brothers!
DRSS

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CptCurlAdministrator
.450 member


Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5284
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: Damascus Barreled Rifles [Re: Rusty]
      #23996 - 13/01/05 02:20 AM

Rusty,

Heck, yeah I've seen plenty. They are beautiful if they have survived the years without abuse.

Go to the Las Vegas Antique Arms Show and you will be tempted by a good number of damascus barreled double rifles. Also the Vintagers.

Best regards,
CptCurl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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Rusty
.333 member


Reged: 08/02/03
Posts: 464
Loc: Missouri City, Texas
Re: Damascus Barreled Rifles [Re: CptCurl]
      #23997 - 13/01/05 02:43 AM

Thanks, I knew there had to be some! Just couldn't rmember seeing one. I guess I'll check my back issues of DGJ.

would these be Black powder or Nitro proofed?

--------------------
Rusty
We band of brothers!
DRSS

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mehulkamdar
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.
Re: Damascus Barreled Rifles [Re: Rusty]
      #23998 - 13/01/05 03:05 AM

The revamped Brno company still make Damascus barreled rifles. http://www.zbrojovkabrno.com/arms/sluzby.htm
Please look under the Exkluziv tab on this page. Contacting Brno is a headache because they rarely reply to e-mails and the only option is to call them. I would think hard before I decided to order a rifle from them because of their service despite whatever merits their quality may have. Brno also offer full damascus rifles where the action is also in damascus.

The Swedish Damasteel company www.damasteel.se produces damascus steel for barrels but only Flodman in Sweden uses them for their O/U shotguns www.flodman.com Damasteel also produce the slides for Caspian Arms' superb 1911 type 45 ACP damascus pistols.

I had some correspondence with Damasteel's Sales Manager Per Billgren some years ago and he told me that he did have steel for rifle barrels but that tey ahd not been able to find buyers for it.

Good hunting!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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EricD
.416 member


Reged: 27/02/04
Posts: 4636
Re: Damascus Barreled Rifles [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #24001 - 13/01/05 03:21 AM




It does look pretty cool. But I wonder how the Damascus stands up to rust compaired to other steel? Anyone know?

Erik

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DUGABOY1
.400 member


Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA
Re: Damascus Barreled Rifles [Re: Rusty]
      #24016 - 13/01/05 10:27 AM

Rusty, I have a Cape gun that is Damascus barreled. It has a 20 ga 2.5" on the left, and a 58 Berdan Carbine on the right. It is a black powder arm and is in excellent condition. It is a dove murderer, with the shot barrel, and will flatten a Muledeer at 100 yds with the 58 cal rifle side. I'll bring it when we go on our DRSS Boar hunt in April.

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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mehulkamdar
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.
Re: Damascus Barreled Rifles [Re: EricD]
      #24035 - 13/01/05 03:05 PM

Erik D,

A lot of the old Damascus barreled shotguns are still in use in India more than a hundred years after they were made despite the damp and dust that all guns in India are subjected to. Hardly any of them seemed to need any extra rust protection compared to the later "conventional" barrels. I think the suspicions about Damascus barrels in the Nitro era were because of concerns about their strength but if Damasteel and Flodman could offer their guns with Damascus barrels today, I must presume that they are amply strong. Until I saw the Brno website, I did not know that any rifles had been made with Damascus barrels though Per Billgren had told me that his company did have steel to make rifle barrels with.

I have never shot a Damascus gun but those who did always seemed to comment that they sounded quieter than non damascus ones because the shot did not "ring" off the barrels. Perhaps one of the experienced members here who ahs a Damascus shotgun or rifle could tell us about it. No idea what the barrels would do on rifles except look really beautiful, but then, I guess, that is reason enough.

Good hunting!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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470Rigby
.333 member


Reged: 23/02/04
Posts: 328
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Re: Damascus Barreled Rifles [Re: CptCurl]
      #24045 - 13/01/05 11:55 PM

Damascus barrels are quite common on Black Powder rifles, as they are Nitro Proved shotguns, but I have never come across an original Nitro Proved rifle with with damascus barrels.

Has anybody, anything to report on this score??

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Rusty
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Reged: 08/02/03
Posts: 464
Loc: Missouri City, Texas
Re: Damascus Barreled Rifles [Re: Rusty]
      #24049 - 14/01/05 01:11 AM

Beautiful stuff!

Thanks!

--------------------
Rusty
We band of brothers!
DRSS

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mehulkamdar
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Reged: 09/01/04
Posts: 3688
Loc: State of Ill-Annoy USA.
Re: Damascus Barreled Rifles [Re: 470Rigby]
      #24097 - 14/01/05 11:55 AM

470Rigby,

No idea about historical masterpieces but the fact is that Brno offer their rifles in a number of "modern" calibers including all of the old favourites and the relatively new 7mm Rem and 300 Win magnums.

Per Billgren told me that he had contacted different Ferlach gunmakers and was trying to sell them a patented type of Damascus barrel steel though he might have been unsuccessful as I have never heard of any being made in Ferlach. Even Flodman, who make their shotgun barrels with steel from Damasteel do not make barrels from this material for their O/U rifles.

I have posted this question on some British forums and if any information comes up, I shall copy and paste it here.

Best wishes,

Mehul Kamdar.

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3595
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: Damascus Barreled Rifles [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #24124 - 14/01/05 05:30 PM

Some of us regularly hunt dangerous game with our large-bore damascus-barrelled double rifles.

My 20-bore/.577 Alex Henry simply electrocutes big buff with a 'nitro-for-black'-loaded 650-grain Woodleigh to the point of the shoulder!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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AfricanHunter
.275 member


Reged: 01/02/04
Posts: 60
Loc: Nebraska, USA
Re: Damascus Barreled Rifles [Re: Rusty]
      #24172 - 15/01/05 10:49 AM

Rusty,

Nice to meet you in Dallas!

I have never seen a Nitro proven double rifle in damascus barrels.

Black powder, yes several.

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SOUTHPAWTOO
.275 member


Reged: 04/12/04
Posts: 85
Loc: Indiana, USA
Re: Damascus Barreled Rifles [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #24558 - 19/01/05 07:05 PM

Dear Dugaboy,
Can you please provide me with more info as to your DRSS that you attend. Thanks pard.
SP2

southpawtoo@aol.com

--------------------
SP2


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SOUTHPAWTOO
.275 member


Reged: 04/12/04
Posts: 85
Loc: Indiana, USA
Re: Damascus Barreled Rifles [Re: Rusty]
      #24559 - 19/01/05 07:09 PM

Dear Rusty,
I own a Holland (vintage 1870's) .500-.450 #1 exp. with very beautiful damascus bbls. When you come to "Big Rock" in April for the CADS shoot, I'll let ya see it.
(Hoping to see you in April) SP2

--------------------
SP2


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unspellable
.300 member


Reged: 06/03/04
Posts: 187
Loc: Iowa
Re: Damascus Barreled Rifles [Re: SOUTHPAWTOO]
      #24624 - 20/01/05 05:51 AM

First to clear up a commonly confused point, not all of those barrels are Damascus, some are laminated, some are stub, etc., and there are quite a few varients of multiple metal barrels.

Barrels of this type give up nothing to solid steel barrels in terms of strength.

The bad reputation stems from the following problems:

Some of these barrels were simply cheap junk and as such would still be cheap junk if made out of solid steel.

Many were designed for BP loads. They simply were not built to take modern high pressure loads (This applies mainly to shot guns.) The same problem would still exist if they were solid steel. This problem is aggrevated by the use of longer than chamber cartridges in shot guns.

While these barrels may not rust any faster than a solid barrel, it's possible for the rust to be hidden. Probably applies more to cheap barrels.

Given a good quality barrel in good condition with the proper load there is no reason these barrels cannot be used safely.

The BIG caveat is they do require understanding to avoid falling into any of the pot holes above.

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Rusty
.333 member


Reged: 08/02/03
Posts: 464
Loc: Missouri City, Texas
Re: Damascus Barreled Rifles [Re: SOUTHPAWTOO]
      #24646 - 20/01/05 12:07 PM

Southpawtoo,
It sounds like a beauty!

Hopefully in April the DRSS will be ensconced at Camp Cooley or another spot on our annual Hog Hunt!

We are all looking forward to hunting together and to trying some of Mac's Possum Chili, an old family receipt.

PWN375 usually will fry up a mess of mountain oysters! NE450#2 and I will snack on anchovies, cheese and crackers, with the appropriate Single Malt Whisky to wash it down!

We try to make sure that 400 Nitro Express and Mac bunk in the same room. Sounds like a saw mill churning out several cords of wood in there!

Seriously, thanks for the invite! Maybe next year!



--------------------
Rusty
We band of brothers!
DRSS

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SOUTHPAWTOO
.275 member


Reged: 04/12/04
Posts: 85
Loc: Indiana, USA
Re: Damascus Barreled Rifles [Re: Rusty]
      #24785 - 21/01/05 11:12 PM

Dear Friend Rusty,
The April "CADS" shoot at Big Rock Range is not the only one planned for 2005. We will be having this match on the 5th Saturday of the months that have 5 Saturdays. Granted this is a "new venue", and for the first shoot it might conflict with others. But, if we can get you folks from TX, plus the lads from the Mid-Atlantic states to get on board. In the near future we could have something rivaling the Vintagers or Cowboy Action shooting. It all has to start somewhere. Please send me your mailing address so I can send you a packet of info on the shoots and directions.
Big Rock Range is one of the finest ranges in this part of the country.
Thanks Pard, SP2

--------------------
SP2


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400NitroExpress
.400 member


Reged: 26/11/03
Posts: 1154
Loc: Lone Star State
Re: Damascus Barreled Rifles [Re: SOUTHPAWTOO]
      #24830 - 22/01/05 09:20 AM

SouthPawToo:

Mac (Dugaboy1) also has a .500/.450 No. 1 Express, a fine Westley Richards, which he brought to the last DRSS hog hunt. You should try to join us in April.

Rusty:

You bastard. Just because Mac and I have played the Astrodome without sound equipment doesn't mean we have to stand for such insult. My second will call on you.
--------------------------------------

--------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

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