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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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Buster95
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Reged: 01/11/10
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Loc: Canada
458 win mag barrel twist
      #238268 - 24/11/13 12:22 PM

What's the best barrel twist for a 458 win mag 1:14, 1:10, other? I'm not sure if it's important but the barrel length is 26".

Edited by Buster95 (24/11/13 12:23 PM)

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MikeRowe
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Reged: 23/11/11
Posts: 478
Loc: Arkansas, USA
Re: 458 win mag barrel twist [Re: Buster95]
      #238269 - 24/11/13 12:51 PM

Whatever twist you decide on, it is a good idea to have it opposite your shooting side, i.e. left hand twist for right hand shooter.

I always do this on a heavy, the rifle will torque away from the shooters face, and push the pistol grip more firmly into the hand. Definite plusses, and well worth the small extra expense.

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Caprivi
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Reged: 30/09/08
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Loc: America's Serengeti, Buffalo W...
Re: 458 win mag barrel twist [Re: MikeRowe]
      #238271 - 24/11/13 03:26 PM

+1 Mike

The "factory" twist is 1-14, some old timers like Lester Bauska and John Bulmiller liked 1-24, I am the other way, I have had 2 1-10twist as well as a 1-12 and a few factory 1-14's .... The 1-12 was by far the most accurate but that is mute, they all shot very well, even at very long range for a .458win/lott

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xausa
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Reged: 07/03/07
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Re: 458 win mag barrel twist [Re: Caprivi]
      #238279 - 25/11/13 03:03 AM

John Buhmiller's position was that if a 1-24 twist would stablize a 500 grain bullet in a .45-70 (which it will), it would certainly do so in a .458 Winchester Magnum. Besides, as John pointed out, if you chamber your .450 Watts/.458 Lott in a 1-24 barrel, it will shoot .458 WM loads accurately, which he maintained was not the case with the faster Winchester factory twist. This possibility could make a difference in a situation where you were out of your Watts/Lott ammunition and had to make do with .458 WM. My .450 Watts has a 1-24 twist for that reason.

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DarylS
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Re: 458 win mag barrel twist [Re: xausa]
      #238280 - 25/11/13 03:51 AM

Interesting, I had a .458 with a 15" twist - was supposed to be 14" but was 1" slower than that, as well as 18", 20" and 22" twists - never a 24" in .458, though.

Every twist I've used in the .45's shot all bullet weights up to 500gr. beautifully, with the faster 18" and 20" handling bullets at low BP velocities of 1,500fps (3 1/4" & 2.750" and less with 2.4" and down to 1.9" cases.

I did shoot the Lyman #462560 form my .458- at over 2,000fps, and it was quite accurate at that speed, in the fast barrel, but also in the slower twist barrels. That 15" twist barrel, however did not like any 300gr. bullets if driven at or over 2,400fps. - at all as they would cut oblong holes in the target. I always felt it was due to the rate of twist being too high for that bullet's length - right or wrong, it wouldn't shoot them at that speed, but did well with them if driven no faster than 2,200fps. Perhaps the jacketed bullet's composition was causing too much slumping and that was the cause - at that pressure level.

Another puzzler is the 15" twists in .50 calibres. Why? I just don't get it. A 24" twist will stabilize and shoot with match accuracy, up to 600gr. bullets - even at low speeds, let alone 800fps faster at smokeless speeds.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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DarylS
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Re: 458 win mag barrel twist [Re: DarylS]
      #238281 - 25/11/13 03:57 AM

There are theories that a bullet that is spinning faster than it needs to, maintains better stability & straight line penetration after striking bone or tissue that disrupts it's jacket and causes expansion.


We know the opposite is true from our own moose hunts here, where round ball twist muzzle loaders, shooting elongated bullets gave very poor performance on moose, the bullets rarely if ever traveling in a straight line after impact. They would even turn 90 degrees on striking a rib - yet on target, were able to shoot some amazing groups, even at 100yards.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Buster95
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Re: 458 win mag barrel twist [Re: DarylS]
      #238291 - 25/11/13 03:01 PM

So 1:14 is the way to go?

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: 458 win mag barrel twist [Re: Buster95]
      #238308 - 26/11/13 05:09 AM

I'd not use anything tighter than 18" IF I had a choice. I do not believe faster is necessary - perhaps is shooting 750gr. bullets in a .45.

My current 18" .458 GM barrel is putting jacketed 405's into 7/8" (10 shot witnessed group) at 100 meters with aperture sights front and rear and 525 FB cast bullets into from 1" to 1 3/8" with same sights and black powder - witnessed. With hard, gas checked 505's and Benchmark powder, it's running 1 1/2" merely using the Sharps open sights at 100 meters off bags - also witnessed.

So - if 24" is all that's needed according to some of the best big game shooters and gunsmiths, why go any faster than needed?

As far as longer range stability is concerned, some years ago, the Quigly offhand match (Rendezvous BC2008?)) at 750yards was won by a fellow shooting an original Trapdoor Springfield using 525gr. Lyman # 457125 bullets - that rifle had a 22" twist & his accuracy proved the stability of the long bullets in what some think of as too-slow a twist. We also know these calibers, bullets and twists used to shoot right through a buffalo, but in the longer cased rounds 18" seemed to be preferred - at least for shooting in 1,000yard competitions.

The faster the bullet, the more easily it is stabilized in a given rate of twist.

Thus, a smokeless powder round, running 600 to 800fps faster, in the same twist, is even better stabilized- why increase the rate of twist further yet?
Faster the twist, the higher the pressure and slower the bullet - IF all else is equal - in theory.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Ripp
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Re: 458 win mag barrel twist [Re: DarylS]
      #238984 - 09/12/13 03:20 AM

Daryl
Awesome info...thank you

Ripp

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