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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles

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Robie
.275 member

Reged: 04/04/03
Posts: 61

.416 Taylor
#2381 - 15/04/03 09:34 AM

Any comments - experience - reflections on the .416 Taylor?

Robie

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magnum308
.275 member

Reged: 19/05/04
Posts: 52
Loc: Brisbane, Australia

Re: .416 Taylor [Re: Robie]
#16209 - 25/06/04 10:48 PM

I don't have one personally but I have observed from a distance some of the expolits of RF Chatfield-Taylor, the developer of the 416 Taylor (and the 375 Chatfield-Taylor which I do have).

There is an article by him called "416 Taylor - Buff Buster" (Guns & Ammo, April 1973, page 74). He used 400 Gr Kynoch solids ahead of 64 grs 3031 for a velocity of 2,250 fps giving 4,500 fbls energy. The recoil, according to the author, is 50 flbs vs 65 flbs for the 458 WM. Mr Charfield-Taylor as well as three PHs in Africa found it to be a very effective calibre and asked the author if he could something about getting it "offered by some American manufacturer as soon as possible". That was in 1971.

The 416 Taylor was intended to replicate the ballistics and performance of the 416 Rigby in a standard "short" magnum length action and rifle. RF Chatfield-Taylor has Winchester custom shot build him a Winchester African in 416 Taylor, which accounted for a number of Cape Buffalo in 1971.

"It is, in my opinion, the world's outstanding cartridge for a magazine rifle" RF Chatfield-Taylor.

Magnum308

--------------------
____________________________________________
Life is too short to hunt with an ugly rifle

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bonanza
.400 member

Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina

Re: .416 Taylor [Re: magnum308]
#16214 - 26/06/04 01:03 AM

I know of a few shooters who love the .416 taylor. I long considered building one on my Rem 700 LH action - as nobody makes a LH .416 rifle.

--------------------

"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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Marrakai
.416 member

Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3592
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia

Re: .416 Taylor [Re: bonanza]
#16244 - 27/06/04 12:54 AM

Robie:
I have used a .416 Taylor for well over a decade, and can't speak highly enough of the cartridge as a heavy-medium bolt-gun chambering. The shoulder-shot absolutely stuns buff! Simply marvellous!

With the cheaper 400gr Taipans for pigs, Woodleigh Weldcores for buff, and either Woodleigh or Hornady steel-jacketed solids for ponderous game, there's nothing it can't handle. ...and plenty flat enough for plains game I imagine, especially with spitzers or the Woodleigh PP bullet. I have never loaded down from the 400-grain bullet myself, but those who have report good results with 350-grainers or Barnes X.

Its relatively easy to get 2400 fps with ADI powders if you really want to, and matching original Rigby ballistics is a snack, but I don't bother pushing that hard. The 410gr Woodleigh RNSN at 2280 fps is my working load, pass-throughs are common even when a shoulder is smashed, and cases last forever.

My rifle is a back-shed custom job, Walther barrel on a 1942 CZ Mauser'98, modified military stock, 10 pounds even. Express sights, no scope. I mostly shoot doubles these days, so its often a loaner: two of my mates collected their first buffs with this rifle last dry.

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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DoubleD
.400 member

Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 2437
Loc: Retired in Oklahoma

Re: .416 Taylor [Re: Marrakai]
#16251 - 27/06/04 12:00 PM

I have a 404 Express FNB (.416 cal) built by Fred Barnes back in the 1950's. It was built on a 98 Mauser action. The only difference that I can find between it and the Taylor is the shoulder diameter of the case is .500 instead of .489. For loading I use Taylor loading data with no problem.

Haven't used it on any big stuff, but have used it for jump shooting Whitetail in Montana. They don't get away.

I have been making brass from 300 Win Mag. What brass are you fellows using?

I use the 300 Grain Barnes X-bullets for Deer. I have tried some 400 Gr. bullets but the 300's shot better.

I get 1 1/4 inch 5 shot groups at 100 yards with the Redfield peep sight on the rifle. I intend to scope mount in the near future. When I hunt on the woods I can't see the rear sight. In the open prairie, no problem...56 year old eyes don't seem to work that well any more...

Been shooting it for about 10 years now. I am going to have to send some fired Cases to CH4D and have some loading dies made.

I think I need to go to Australia and shot some of your big critters with this rifle!

--------------------
DD, Ret.

Edited by DoubleD (27/06/04 12:02 PM)

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470Rigby
.333 member

Reged: 23/02/04
Posts: 328
Loc: Melbourne, Australia

Re: .416 Taylor [Re: Marrakai]
#16252 - 27/06/04 12:45 PM

Marrakai et al;

Anything to report on the performance of .416 cal Taipans on Deer-sized game???

I have used Taipans in calibres from .240 to .375 on light game, and their performance is quite devastating, presumably oweing to their thin jackets and soft lead cores.

Having been witness to some spectacularly poor performance by Woodleigh 410 gr RN SN's out of a .416 Taylor on a good Sambar stag (absolutely NO expansion!), I really couldn't endorse them for light game. Their 340 grain PP's smay be a different kettle of fish though????

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Marrakai
.416 member

Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3592
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia

Re: .416 Taylor [Re: 470Rigby]
#16295 - 28/06/04 08:20 PM

470R:
The 400gr Taipans are bombs on pigs, very deadly! I reckon they would perform similarly on large deer. Surprised to hear the Woodleigh didn't expand on a Sambar stag: I could be wrong, but I get the feeling that Geoff has been toughening them up a little since his big move into the US market. Lots of yanks pushing the velocity envelope, especially with single-barrel rifles, and demanding a tougher bullet. Main competition comes from Barnes X.

Here's an example: 650gr .577 BP softs at 1650 fps mv. On the left, bought several years ago, on the right, bought last year. Both retrieved from buff at ~30yds, under the hide on the off-side.

DD:
I use .338 cases necked up for .416 Taylor brass, my Davern dies have a long tapered expander, straight up in a single pass, never lost a case! I prefer thin necks (last longer), but you will get an extra couple of grains of powder into a necked-down .458. Dunno why that should be, but I guess its important if you really need to chase 2400 fps.

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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DoubleD
.400 member

Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 2437
Loc: Retired in Oklahoma

Re: .416 Taylor [Re: Marrakai]
#16297 - 28/06/04 09:30 PM

Marrakai

I tried .338 cases and the neck was to short. Not a big deal as it just holds the bullet.

The gun came with one case and it was a 300 Win Mag so I just stuck with that.

I tried .375 HH cases. They need a lot of trimming and reaming to work.

Never got around to trying .458 brass.

I don't have reloading dies for this rifle.. I built a Universal loading die and use it for loading. I use the decapping rod from my 416 Rem Mag dies in the universal die to decap. I drop a neck size bushing in the universal die to squeeze the neck down enough to hold the bullet. Then I put the Seater plug from the .416 Rem Mag in the universal die to seat the bullet.

This rifle is one of my favorites. Unfortunately the rifle is getting old, and it's sights are starting to go fuzzy and I need to Install a scope on it.....

--------------------
DD, Ret.

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Marrakai
.416 member

Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3592
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia

Re: .416 Taylor [Re: DoubleD]
#16335 - 29/06/04 10:08 PM

DD:
Pity the .404 Express FNB is too long to be made from the .338 brass, its certainly the easy way to go for the Taylor chambering. Also, the .300 has to be expanded quite a bit more than the .338 to make .416.

You could always try necking down the .458, and then external-spinning the neck on a mandrel in the lathe, as suggested by Nonte. It only has to be extended 0.120-inch, probably only one light pass. A lot of mucking about admittedly, but some folks love the occupational therapy!

Scoping the Taylor should be no trouble, my mate has one scoped in a plastic stock, and he has no problems. Not the place for a cheap scope or mounts, though. Leupold on up should be OK.

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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DoubleD
.400 member

Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 2437
Loc: Retired in Oklahoma

Re: .416 Taylor [Re: Marrakai]
#16346 - 30/06/04 06:28 AM

I have no problem fire forming brass. Put some H4227 in the 300 Win mag, case fill it the rest of the way up with cream of wheat, cap off with a plug a wax and fire. Cases form right out.

--------------------
DD, Ret.

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Con
.333 member

Reged: 24/05/04
Posts: 261
Loc: Victoria

Re: .416 Taylor [Re: 470Rigby]
#16367 - 01/07/04 06:47 AM

470Rigby,
I think Bertram is now making a .416 projectile that may be a softer option than the Woodleigh.
Cheers...
Con

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atkinson6
.375 member

Reged: 26/01/04
Posts: 678
Loc: Idaho

Re: .416 Taylor [Re: Con]
#17315 - 28/07/04 06:23 AM

I used it back when we didn't have a lot of options, thats why it was designed...

With the advent of the 416 Remington, I see no reason to use a Taylor anymore...They use the same action and the Rem is a factory round...With the new africa I want the proper headstamp on my rifle and rounds...Recoil is the same and they are both cheap to load..You can load a Rem to the same velocity as a Taylor and have a good deal less pressure, and that's a plus they tell me in the African heat, although I have never had such problems..

IMO the Taylor has seen its usefullness and is nothing more than a wildcat toy for someone thats bored....in which case its justifiable, but not needed......

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DoubleD
.400 member

Reged: 23/11/03
Posts: 2437
Loc: Retired in Oklahoma

Re: .416 Taylor [Re: atkinson6]
#17322 - 28/07/04 08:54 AM

Damn Ray you are getting soft in your old age. That is the mildest comment I have ever heard you make on wildcats.

--------------------
DD, Ret.

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DUGABOY1
.400 member

Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA

Re: .416 Taylor [Re: Robie]
#17747 - 10/08/04 02:42 AM

The 416 Taylor is the best use of 458 Win Mag brass I can think of! ;>) Though it is easier to make it out of 338 Win Mag brass, (the same case, but expanded instead of necked down) so it doesn't have to be neck reamed! As Marrakai says it is a very effecient cartridge!

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..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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