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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Single Shots & Combination Guns
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Postman
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Reged: 25/09/13
Posts: 846
Loc: Canada
Eugen Scheinert Osnabruck (gunsmith) history question
      #237779 - 14/11/13 06:11 AM

I have very recently acquired a combination gun 16 gauge 2 1/2" over 7x57R.

I am looking for information as to the history of the gun maker, Eugen Scheinert and whether his firearms hold any significant monetary value generally speaking.

The gun itself was made in 1937, supposedly as a presentation gun for Wilhelm Keitel, although there was no substantiating documentation with the gun to support the story of ownership. It has a very low s/n, multiple proof marks, and WK stamped between the firing pins on the face, and WK stamped on the barrel set as well The gun has several gold inlay game scenes, and the metalwork was nicely engraved. The stock is nicely figured. Overall condition is very good. Bores do not show any appreciable wear and the rifling is sharp and clean.

I'm debating whether to actually use the gun in the field or not. It is light, well balanced and would work really well for deer hunting with the ability to take the occasional grouse along the way but before I go sit in the rain and snow with it on a deer stand, it would be nice to understand if the gun is too valuable to expose to the elements inevitable during hunting.

Edited by Postman (14/11/13 06:13 AM)

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kuduae
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Re: Eugen Scheinert Osnabruck (gunsmith) history question [Re: Postman]
      #237780 - 14/11/13 06:38 AM

Photos, please! Especially of all the proofmarks. Eugen Scheinert was a country gunsmith at Herrenteichstr. 23, Osnabrück. Shop taken over from j.Dahl in 1880. Scheinert certainly is just the retailer, as usual. He certainly had the gun made by the specialist makers in Suhl. The WK on the barrels points to the well known Suhl barrelmaker Wilhelm Kelber. The Wk on breechface is the real maker of the gun, but here the shape and arrangement of the letters is important for identification.

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Postman
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Re: Eugen Scheinert Osnabruck (gunsmith) history question [Re: kuduae]
      #237783 - 14/11/13 07:39 AM

I can take all sorts of pictures, but don't have a clue as to how to post them...... the WK are stamped inside an oval, and the trailing edge of the W forms the leading edge of the K. The left side of the barrels just below the front claw mount are both marked BOHLER STAHL with a star stamped in between the two words. The WK inside an oval is stamped on the left side of the front barrel lug. On the left side of the rear lug is stamped 50. and in front of the front lug on the barrel underside is a lightly stamped 00 then a deeply stamped 37.
There is a crown over a "G"' a crown over a "U"', there are what appears to be a couple of birds spread eagled like they we're hit by a truck,
Then:
7m/m
57
3.37
540
several places where an N is stamped,
G.U.M.G 102gr
16 in a circle
16/1

Edited by Postman (14/11/13 07:52 AM)

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kuduae
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Reged: 13/01/10
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Re: Eugen Scheinert Osnabruck (gunsmith) history question [Re: Postman]
      #237787 - 14/11/13 09:45 AM

Your gun was indeed proofed 3.37 = March 1937. As the proofhouse ledger number 540 shows, it was made and proofed in Zella-Mehlis. Neighboring and competing Suhl did not use such ledger numbers.
The WK marks you describe are not those of Wilhelm Kelber, Suhl, as he used the script and seperated letters without an oval. As your gun was made in Zella-Mehlis your WK stamp points to Willy Krausser, an unsung "gunmaker to the trade" there at Hochwaldstr.2. Zella-Mehlis made combination guns usually are not as high regarded as Suhl made ones. Without documentation a "Wilhelm Keitel" connection adds nothing to the value. The USA are full of guns said to be "once owned by Hermann Goering" or other Nazi greats. Any old gun engraved or stamped with the letters HG is ascribed to Goering, despite Goerings guns were never engraved with such mundane letters. He had his coat of arms on his guns. I suspect someone saw the letters WK on your gun and looked for an infamous maybe former owner with those initials.

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Postman
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Reged: 25/09/13
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Loc: Canada
Re: Eugen Scheinert Osnabruck (gunsmith) history question [Re: kuduae]
      #237789 - 14/11/13 10:42 AM

Thank you kuduae! Your knowledge and help is much appreciated.

It would seem that I have a very nice old gun that would make a great hunting gun. The gun shoulders beautifully and is light and fast handling. I will develop some mild loads for it and take it hunting as it was designed to do. I suspected that the Nazi connection was simply a mildly amusing tale. Had there been merit to the story, I expect that the firearm would have sold for a great deal of money.

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ellenbr
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Re: Eugen Scheinert Osnabruck (gunsmith) history question [Re: Postman]
      #240238 - 06/01/14 01:12 PM















Most interesting as it appears that I'd say at least 1/2 the effort was from the mechanics in Suhl with the JY stamp, Boys Kelber script L and script EKH or whatever it is near the forend hanger. Just lovely Kerner-Anson O/U - Bockbüchsflinte.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Edited by CptCurl (06/01/14 10:02 PM)

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ellenbr
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Reged: 25/08/07
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Loc: North Alabama
Re: Eugen Scheinert Osnabruck (gunsmith) history question [Re: ellenbr]
      #240368 - 09/01/14 12:48 PM


Photo( Rudolf Lichtenberg ) from 1925 that is supposed to show Eugen Scheinert of Osnabruck's shop(Nr. 23)


lifted from here:
http://www.wenner.net/bild-archiv-os/aos3-113.htm


Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Edited by CptCurl (19/07/14 09:06 PM)

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heers68
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Reged: 11/04/08
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Loc: north carolina
Re: Eugen Scheinert Osnabruck (gunsmith) history question [Re: ellenbr]
      #244305 - 24/03/14 07:00 AM

Great looking BBF! Very unique engraving style. Lets see the stock and barrels too! These handle great don't they?? Kevin.

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