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MS1910
.224 member


Reged: 03/09/12
Posts: 8
Loc: India
Banner Mauser 7x57 from India
      #237241 - 29/10/13 07:47 PM

Hey Everyone,

I am new to mausers and have been offered a Mauser 7x57 which for its age seems to be in decent condition.. From the little research I have done so far, the following are my findings (please correct me if I am wrong).

1. its a 98 action
2. most likely a small ring action
3. Grade B sporter
4. Matching numbers (Barrel, Action & Magazine floor plate)
5. Belgian proof marks

It would be of great help to get some inputs from members of this forum. I have pretty much decided I am going to pick this rifle up, but would love to hear from you guys as well.















--------------------
Saif

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Banner Mauser 7x57 from India [Re: MS1910]
      #237242 - 29/10/13 08:45 PM


I'd buy it, within reason.

I love those old Mausers.

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kuduae
.400 member


Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1792
Loc: middle of Germany
Re: Banner Mauser 7x57 from India [Re: 500Nitro]
      #237243 - 30/10/13 12:22 AM

"Made in Germany" without German proofmarks, only Belgian ones? Small ring WW1 Kar 98a action, military shape, with post-1922 "Mauser Werke AG" and Mauser Banner? (Mauser, Oberndorf , did not make small ring 98 actions after 1900, except the short "K" ones. Kar98 A actions were most often made by Erfurt arsenal, closed down 1922.) Non-matching (extractor, ejector housing), non-Mauser serial Numbers in the wrong places? "Cal.7mm" on top of barrel instead on left side? Very slim stock without checkered pistol grip, but with a big trough behind tang, unlike any Mauser B or C stock I have seen? IMHO VERY DUBIOUS!!!

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MS1910
.224 member


Reged: 03/09/12
Posts: 8
Loc: India
Re: Banner Mauser 7x57 from India [Re: kuduae]
      #237244 - 30/10/13 01:06 AM

wow!! That's not very encouraging news at all.. was a bit confused about the Belgian markings myself but the rest seemed ok..

guys really need your inputs here.. don't want to end up with a lemon..

--------------------
Saif

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Banner Mauser 7x57 from India [Re: MS1910]
      #237245 - 30/10/13 01:10 AM


It depends what they are asking for it and if you are wanting an "all original gun" or just a 7mm Mauser ?


BTW, Might be worth buying the Mauser books.
One is by John Speed, can't remember who wrote the others.

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Carpetsahib
.333 member


Reged: 29/04/07
Posts: 435
Loc: Western NC
Re: Banner Mauser 7x57 from India [Re: MS1910]
      #237246 - 30/10/13 01:17 AM

The Afridi gunmakers of Dera Adam Khel in the Northwest Frontier Province are capable of making such a rifle. I have seen amazing guns come from that locale. Mixed design features, proof marks, chamberings are all possible with them.

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MS1910
.224 member


Reged: 03/09/12
Posts: 8
Loc: India
Re: Banner Mauser 7x57 from India [Re: Carpetsahib]
      #237252 - 30/10/13 02:20 AM

So the rifle belongs to a gent who by Indian standards isn't asking for an unreasonable amount.. in fact he is asking for less than market value for a 7mm in India..

If this is from Dera, the current owner would have no idea..

Now I am getting cold feet..

--------------------
Saif

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justcurious
.333 member


Reged: 17/03/10
Posts: 285
Loc: Germany
Re: Banner Mauser 7x57 from India [Re: MS1910]
      #237254 - 30/10/13 04:16 AM

Made in Germany-markings on the barrel (the number also) can be read from the left side.
7x57 marking on the barrel is to be read from the right side and the position of the action and barrel numbering are more than unusual.

The base of the tangent sight seems a reprofiled item from a military carbine.
A smallring action in standard length (pre 98 /transitional)and the inscription on the left sidewall does not fit together.

An interesting fake ,if not from India it could be from the Khyberpass.

Just my 2Cents

Edited by justcurious (30/10/13 04:17 AM)

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kuduae
.400 member


Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1792
Loc: middle of Germany
Re: Banner Mauser 7x57 from India [Re: justcurious]
      #237256 - 30/10/13 04:42 AM

Likely it was a sporting rifle built in Belgium post-WW1 in 7x57 on an ex-Kar98AZ action. Later someone added the prestigious Mauser banner, Mauser-Werke inscription, the "Cal.7mm" inscription and perhaps restocked it. A German postWW1 would have rather written "Kal.7mm" and 7mm appears on the barrel two times. Also, compare the MW inscriptions on the left receiver wall. On top is the one on this Belgian-Indian Mauser, below the one on my rust-pitted 7x57 B-Mauser, large ring intermediate action, of 1933 vintage. Look closely at the shape of the "M" and of the "A/N".


I would buy it as what it is: A fairly old and mediocre 7x57 working bolt action on an ex-military 98 action, but not as a Commercial Mauser sporting rifle. Don't pay a single Rupee for the faked "Mauser" and "Made in Germany" inscriptions.

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metal
.275 member


Reged: 30/04/13
Posts: 69
Loc: Australia
Re: Banner Mauser 7x57 from India [Re: MS1910]
      #237300 - 31/10/13 08:08 AM

Dodgy fake, bolt face is trashed, save yourself the trouble, pass on it.

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Carpetsahib
.333 member


Reged: 29/04/07
Posts: 435
Loc: Western NC
Re: Banner Mauser 7x57 from India [Re: MS1910]
      #237312 - 31/10/13 02:34 PM

The gunmakers of Dera could duplicate Belgian proof marks quite easily. And I can see how they might be applied to a fake German rifle as decoration. I remember seeing a gunsmith busy making a punch with a Persian Lion; it would be applied to a fake Persian contract Mauser he was building.

For what it's worth, Dera Adam Khel, or Darra Adam Khel is the village near Peshawar famous for gunmaking. Even though it isn't in the Khyber Pass, it is the village people are talking about when they mention gunmakers of the Khyber. When I was there in 1974, probably 80% of the shops in town were gun shops. The remainder were tea shops or opium shops.

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Banner Mauser 7x57 from India [Re: Carpetsahib]
      #237314 - 31/10/13 03:12 PM


"probably 80% of the shops in town were gun shops. The remainder were tea shops or opium shops."

What a combination !

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MS1910
.224 member


Reged: 03/09/12
Posts: 8
Loc: India
Re: Banner Mauser 7x57 from India [Re: 500Nitro]
      #237316 - 31/10/13 04:24 PM

Guys,

This has been tremendously informational. I cant thank you all enough.

The only unfortunate part is that I came to you guys a little late. I had already given my word to the current owner before putting this post up on nitroexpress and now cant back track.

Although I must mention, that I first put up this post on Mausercentral.com looking for help and information but the moderators there seem to be a bit finicky about my IP address (mentioned something about it being blocked for spam). Anyway, they were in a tearing hurry to block my account. I sent them multiple emails explaining that I was no spammer and there must have been some mistake, but no reply.

Net Result: Some enthusiastic chaps on Mausercentral.com went on about how this could be a Banner Mauser and got me all excited as well. In their defence, I dint have the chance to put up any details pictures thanks to the moderators..

Anyway, since this rifle is not going to set me back by much and the fact that it shoots straight, I might be able to get rid of it with little difficulty. Here in India, we are starved of guns as there is a restriction on imports (more on that later if you guys want).

One last thing, is there any way to figure out is the action itself is a fake or just the markings? because if its the later then possibly I would consider holding on to this rifle as a working 7x57 bolt action...

Thanks a million
Saif

--------------------
Saif

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metal
.275 member


Reged: 30/04/13
Posts: 69
Loc: Australia
Re: Banner Mauser 7x57 from India [Re: MS1910]
      #237319 - 31/10/13 05:28 PM

The M/W on the side rail & banner are fake but very well done, it had me going for a minute. The action is a small ring, large thread WW1 German Kar 98, the bolt handle gives it away.
I hope it goes well for you.

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Even
.300 member


Reged: 28/12/12
Posts: 175
Loc: Canada
Re: Banner Mauser 7x57 from India [Re: metal]
      #237353 - 01/11/13 08:46 AM

I have a large Banner Mauser 7x57, and this ain't it However, I also have a 1921 sporter built on a Kar98AZ action, and its a sweet little rifle...that small ring removes a surprising amount of weight, which makes it one of my best handling rifles. Enjoy it for what it is, if it shoots straight.

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