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blackbearhunter
.333 member


Reged: 15/06/04
Posts: 273
Loc: swamp
Black Death Charges
      #23705 - 08/01/05 09:57 AM

How often is a hunter charged by BLACK DEATH?How much do the odds go up when wounded?How many rounds can it take to knock one down for keeps if he dont want to go and wants to kill you?Didnt a Mr.Peterson of publishing fame have a close encounter one time where they had to shoot one and then reload and shoot some more?Him and the guide had a time on there hands there for a while.You guess you could out run one long enough to reload and shoot him from behind as you were makeing tracks? Tennis shoes good idea?
In all seriousness,I know it has to happen and doesnt another Cape want to help his friend and come in and try to gore you while you try to get his buddy outta the game?Do the cows try to charge for there youngs protection like a mama grizzly bear?I know i have heard you guys talk about the bitches of the bush eles......Seems like the Rhino would charge you on sight and kill you grave yard dead just for the fun of it if he had a headache/hangover that paticular afternoon...or was just mean and grumpy like some of you guys.....

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vapodog
.300 member


Reged: 28/12/04
Posts: 237
Loc: Nebraska USA
Re: Black Death Charges [Re: blackbearhunter]
      #23708 - 08/01/05 12:16 PM

I've been charged twice in my life.....once by a badger is southern Minnesota.....I had a gun at the time and I ran like hell.....but once I realized that it was I that was armed and not the badger I worked the lever of that Marlin 39A and turned back to the attacker .....but he was gone...

PHC would still be laughing and told the story in a very different fashon I assure you.

The second time I was attacked was actually on safari in Africa.....yes.....attacked in Africa.....by an ostrich...

I quickly asked the PH how much an ostrich was and he replied about $320 so I picked up a softball sized rock and threw it at him.....It hit him in the knee and I think that damn bird is still limping around africa today. Had Capstick been there the story would have been a little different I think.....

That story could have been published in his last book "Wounded Knee in the Short Grass".

--------------------

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shakari
.400 member


Reged: 09/02/03
Posts: 1107
Loc: South Africa
Re: Black Death Charges [Re: vapodog]
      #23737 - 08/01/05 05:07 PM

From my experiences, charges are a lot less common than the books and movies would have you believe......As far as I'm concerned part of the PHs job is to avoid putting the client in danger, so once an animal is wounded and running a "professional", Professional Hunter will wait for a while rather than go charging in after the him.

If you chase the animal immediatly after the shot he'll just keep moving (the same way as everywhere else in the world) and get increasingly pissed off, (and that's when accidents happen) if you wait for a while he'll generally move off a ways and then lie down somewhere. All the while he's doing that he's bleeding out and stiffening up............then a "professional" Professional Hunter will take up the spoor quietly and slowly and that's when a good hunting team will come into it's own.......it's never just the PH who is successful or otherwise at these times, it's the entire hunting team, working as just that......a team.

Once the animal is spotted it's always a good idea to approach the animal from behind if at all possible, even it it means circling round to do so. If he's facing away from you when you put in the next shot it means he'll either run away from you or if he turns to cme at you he'll give you more time for an additional shot or shots.

There's plenty of dangers out there without increasing them by acting stupidly......and all this grandstanding you see on the videos is (IMO) just stupidity. After all, only a stupid person would stand directly in front of the dangerous end of a wounded animal and chat to the client or the camera?........it's like looking down to barrel of a loaded rifle to see what you can see.

They're the rules I use and by using them, I doubt I get more that one or two really serious charge a year.......and I've only ever lost one wounded Buffalo and he was not much more than scratched across the withers.

Having said all that, there are occasional times when you get charged for no reason at all and from my experience this happens most with Rhino and Elephants.

--------------------
Steve "Shakari" Robinson
Kuduland Safaris (Africa) Ltd
info@kuduland.com
www.kuduland.com



Edited by shakari (08/01/05 05:33 PM)

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mikeh416Rigby
.450 member


Reged: 24/02/03
Posts: 6051
Loc: The beautiful Oley Valley, PA....
Re: Black Death Charges [Re: shakari]
      #23753 - 09/01/05 12:54 AM

I've been charged by 4 animals in my hunting career: a skunk and a groundhog (both of which were found to be rabid), a whitetail deer and a black rhino in Namibia.

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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39680
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Black Death Charges [Re: mikeh416Rigby]
      #23755 - 09/01/05 02:12 AM

I've been charged by:

- a blind rabbit. Actually it was just running past me within a foot or so to get to its warren. As I was using some really old ammo in my .22 as I had run out of everything else and it was sighted in and kept missing it. I was lucky. It would have had me but being blind missed me in its charge. I got it after it passed by almost touching the barrels to its side.

- a hog deer I shot too high. It came for me, I fumbled a reload at 6 feet and seeing it was actually running uphill and didn't know where I was, when I stood up, it swerved and crashed into the thick undergrowth where it died within 5 metres. Had it actually been a dangerous animal and charging my fumblings would have mean it would have had me.

- a bull, it was wounded and I wasn't hunting. I jumped down a river embarkment and escaped. Good thing too as it was my bull and worth a lot of money.

- a hawk which had somehow taken a real dislike to me, and swooped me at least five times. It had a look to its face "like i owed it money", actually it looked really mean. It wasn't able to swoop after the fifth time.

Joking aside these minor incidences really show how easy it is NOT to succeed when something is coming at you, at least for me!

A elephant once charged my car too in Hwange, but the accelerator gots us out of the way. That one was fun.



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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4seventy
Sponsor


Reged: 07/05/03
Posts: 2210
Loc: Queensland Australia
Re: Black Death Charges [Re: shakari]
      #23779 - 09/01/05 11:00 AM

In reply to:

There's plenty of dangers out there without increasing them by acting stupidly......and all this grandstanding you see on the videos is (IMO) just stupidity


Shakari,
Is it stupidity or is it a calculated risk?
If the guy in question (and we all know who) had no experience, was armed with a 222 and couldn't shoot for shit, then I would agree that it is stupidity.
However, the guy has experience, he's been doing it sucessfully for years.
His NE doubles are certainly "adequate" and he has proven many times that he can handle the guns and the situations well.
If a person has the ability, the experience, and the right equipment, does this still mean that he is stupid to do as he does?
Isn't there supposed to be a certain amount of "risk" involved in big game or dangerous game hunting?
Isn't that what it is really all about, putting youself and your rifle up against a dangerous animal?
Hunter against beast?
A challenge?


In reply to:

it's never just the PH who is successful or otherwise at these times, it's the entire hunting team, working as just that......a team.



True enough in Africa but in other places maybe not.
Here in Oz we usually cannot employ a team due to the high cost of wages and insurance etc.
Often the "PH" IS "the team"!
Driving, guiding, tracking, backing up, caping, skinning, carrying, cooking, cleaning, mechanic-ing, gun fixing and many more things are often the responsabiliy of the Aussie PH. Just one bloke.
It is still a pretty good life though!


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shakari
.400 member


Reged: 09/02/03
Posts: 1107
Loc: South Africa
Re: Black Death Charges [Re: 4seventy]
      #23794 - 09/01/05 05:03 PM

4seventy,

I wasn't in fact referring to MS particularly. We get sent lots of videos/cd/dvd's from video companies to show us how good (or bad! ) their camera work is and many of them show the PH & client doing just that..........but IMO it is stupid. There's danger enough (certainly enough to still give me a huge buzz even after doing it for about 25 years) in following up wounded DG without silly grandstanding.

As far as I'm concerned the client is to some degree paying for an expensive type of adventure holiday......but still a holiday. Risks come as part of the package but stupid risks should not. A good Professional Hunter should be Professional in every sense of the word and (IMO) that should include the ability to assess and deal with risk factors..........Looking at it another way, a PH only needs to make one single mistake which results in a client being badly injured (let alone killed) and he's lost his entire reputation and business for ever.

I'm not a lawyer and don't know much about insurance policies but I also have my doubts that an insurance policy would pay out to a hunter who had been beaten up by a big wounded animal if they knew he had been parading about in front of that animal when he or the PH should have been putting in an insurance shot.

Yes, I'm sorry. With regard to the comment of hunting in a team. I should have stipulated in Africa. A good PH should be able to do every job in the hunting area if needs be, but no-one can track and look out for a wounded animal (in thick bush) at the same time and a good tracker is worth his weight in gold.

I've never hunted Oz, but would LOVE to and I'd be very interested indeed to see how things work out there. Maybe one day I'll find the time and money to give it a try. The really dumb thing is that many years ago I had a standing invitation to go and hunt on my uncle's properties over there and never took him up on his kind offer........



--------------------
Steve "Shakari" Robinson
Kuduland Safaris (Africa) Ltd
info@kuduland.com
www.kuduland.com



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blackbearhunter
.333 member


Reged: 15/06/04
Posts: 273
Loc: swamp
Re: Black Death Charges [Re: shakari]
      #23808 - 10/01/05 12:41 AM

Shakri I like your style,I would have the same attitude with my hunters!I got a story to tell..
I met a multi- millionare huntress one time that lived in florida.I met her thru my uncle that was her lawyer.He told her about me loving to hunt all the time when he found out she was a huntress.She and her husband had lived on safari for 10 years strieght and had hunted the whole world.There trophy rooms had all animals.She had the pictures and mounts to prove it so this was no bull.She said that her and her husband had more money than they would ever possibly spend and they could oford to do anything they wish.Since they had all ready done everything under the sun,it got to all they lived for were there passion-Africa!!
They Hunted so much and had gotton so good /expert that in order to feel REALLY alive and get EXICITED they had to be chrged by a lion or some dangerous kill you right now animal!!!!
It had to be a death charge or they were not happy and would not shoot a animal anyother way!!!
She was about 50 at the time and was around 5foot 4inchstall and maybe 100# and she was so pretty and in such fine shape you would have guess her to be 25....
She shot and owned all the guns made and her favorite was the 375&458 if i remember correctly.That was about 25years ago.I always have thought about her and her husband and wondered if it would be like that to a lot of people who were into it for the thrill of the second!!!!
It has got to be a different kind of hunt to say the least!
Anyway she never lost a showdown!!!
I had great respect for her as she was a very nice lady,I never have heard of a lot of hunters like that with the Death charge only or its not really Dangerous Game hunting at its fullest....
Have you guides and hunters ever hear of this type hunter before and is it common with people that have hunted for many years?The risk has to go up a notch for excitement?Kinda like a drug?Anyway i love this post,man you guys are funny!!!!



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shakari
.400 member


Reged: 09/02/03
Posts: 1107
Loc: South Africa
Re: Black Death Charges [Re: blackbearhunter]
      #23811 - 10/01/05 02:22 AM

From my experiences it's more often the inexperienced hunter who tends to take that sort of "gung ho" attitude.

The more experienced hunters appreciate the excitement of the hunt for it's own sake......and there's plenty of excitement. With most clients it's not uncommon to take them up to about 30 yards from Buff and/or Elephants and with some (if they're up to and up for it) maybe 20 yards or closer and that's pretty damn exciting......if the herd closes behind you then it's even more exciting! ......and I guess it is very addictive. If it wasn't, then I'd have stopped doing it myself years ago......as it is, if I have a few day's between clients I'll always go out for a Buff for myself!

As to charges, I find they happen so quickly there's not any time to consider how it feels, you just deal with it and then it's over. BUT what I do get a HUGE buzz out of is tracking a wounded Buff (or other big and ugly animal)......I tend to suddenly realise I've got a big fat smile on my face when I'm doing it.

There's all kinds of PHs and all kinds of clients and what tends to happen is that a client will be attracted to the "style" of a certain PH and they then hunt together repeatedly. 2 Examples of this might be MS who if you've seen his videos you'll know is very "gung ho" and another example might be John Sharp who despite his cut off shirts and head band etc is (IMO) very professional in what he does.

I guess (trying not to take myself too seriously here ) my own style would more typically English understatement. I like to get close......in fact very close if at all possible and I like the entire operation (not just the stalk) to run like a well oiled machine......and I HATE to lose, so that makes me prepared to work my ass off if necessary........but I also like to have fun and believe a large part of a good hunt is the laughter. For me the other important part of a hunt should be an understanding of the bush around you and I often find myself waffling onto the client about what he's seeing & hearing as he passes through the bush.....most enjoy it and those that don't mostly have the good grace not to tell me to shut the hell up!

--------------------
Steve "Shakari" Robinson
Kuduland Safaris (Africa) Ltd
info@kuduland.com
www.kuduland.com



Edited by shakari (10/01/05 02:33 AM)

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larcher
.416 member


Reged: 11/01/05
Posts: 2655
Loc: Saverne, Alsace, France
Re: Black Death Charges [Re: shakari]
      #24061 - 14/01/05 04:27 AM

I was charged by a badger. I killed a badger and realized that it was off season. I approached the carcass to quickly burry it. At this moment another badger came full speed to me. As I have just made a big mistake in killing the first, I decided to shoot the second when there would be no other solutions. I kneeled down and when the badger’s snout reached my barrel I peppered it with a 180gr RWS TIG.
I was charged by a wild boar . 2 years ago during a driven hunt I shot a wild boar at 150m. I believed it was dead. 20 minutes later, hearing something behind me I turned my head. The very boar was charging me. Just enough time to shoulder my double 9.3-74 and to break its neck at 5 paces.
In Africa I was charged a couple of times sometimes 3 or 4 times a day by protected elephants . Three times I dealt with buff (medium-sized red buff) and 3 three times the herd stampeded toward us.

Adding to Shakari's post about experienced hunters .

I was told the story of a French couple living in Burkina Faso (ex Upper Volta). The man was mad about lion and his wife about elephant. The result was they were more and more involved in close calls. The man got chewed and clawed a couple of times.
The more they got expericienced, the least they were afraid of their Graal. They ended with no fear at all of lion concerning the man, of ele concerning the wife. God be blessed, they died in their bed . Sometimes experience might create careless hunters .


--------------------
"I don't want to create an encyclopedic atmosphere here when we might be having a beer instead" P H Capstick in "Safari the last adventure."

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blackbearhunter
.333 member


Reged: 15/06/04
Posts: 273
Loc: swamp
Re: Black Death Charges [Re: larcher]
      #24683 - 21/01/05 01:09 AM

Did uncle capstick ever get mauled by a lion,leapord?Did he ever have a tracker or client mauled?Besides uncle wally johnson &uncle Lott who else has been in a fight with a cape buff to the death that we all know are famous solid hunters and very experinced in ways of the bush?Was uncle corbett ever injured or bell?All you guides out there which is your least favorite animal to track/follow up wounded in high grass/scrub thicket?Do you sometimes use another guide with his gun to tag team a big five?Can you give us a close call story?I read where capstick had waited and smoked a cigarette one time that gave him just enough time to keep from being bushwacked by a wounded leapord.The cigarette actually saved his life!Thats one of my all time favorites.That and the one where the fellow was being dragged thru the bush by a lion and he remebered he had a knife and stuck the old lion thru the heart and the old boy letem go!He was given credit for being the first to ever kill a lion with a knife!I think he still has that award! Seems like given enough time it comes sooner or later,kinda like a cat with 9lives!It comes with the territory and is part of the game!No risk no glory!Blonds,brunetts & redheads for all the gang,whiskey for the horses!

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blackbearhunter
.333 member


Reged: 15/06/04
Posts: 273
Loc: swamp
Re: Black Death Charges [Re: blackbearhunter]
      #24713 - 21/01/05 05:51 AM

The Deadly Buffalo by william R.Leigh
An englishman resident in Nairobi said that he once met a black buffalo bull in a patch of forest when he was out hunting with a friend.He was in the lead and recognized his danger.Believing the bull would attack,and hopeing to kill him first,the englishman fired.But he only wounded the animal,which instantly charged.The englishman jumped aside,but his leg was struck by a horn and broken.While the bull tore on to catch the second hunter,the first one,despite his boken leg,climbed a tree and got out on a branch,but his failing strength could not carry him no higher.He could not even lift his injured leg,which dangled uselessly below the branch to which he clung.For over 2 hours he hung there,obliged to look on while the bull reduced his friends body to fragments smaller than a half dollar.This accomplished,the animal turned his attention to the enemy in the tree.He could not reach him,but by taking a running jump he could hit the dangling foot with his horns,and thus amused himself for two hours more,jumping at and banging the foot.At last,perhaps weakened by his wound,the buffalo left,and the man was rescued by other hunters.He was able to walk with a crutch,at the time I heard the story,some years after the incident occurred....
from Frontiers of Enchantment Leighs 1940 classic......
I gotta getme some reads!!


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blackbearhunter
.333 member


Reged: 15/06/04
Posts: 273
Loc: swamp
Re: Black Death Charges [Re: blackbearhunter]
      #24714 - 21/01/05 06:28 AM

Another leigh favorite I would like to share.
Vengeful Elephants
The next day brought us once more to the top of the narrow ridge at Behungi.As we were walking along the backbone of the ridge,shortly before reaching the resthouses,and were walled in by bamboo on both sides,a disturbance in the thicket attracted our attention.We paused.Suddenly a man about fourty years old lurched out of the jungle into the trail.He was almost completely naked,covered with blood and dirt,and wildly distraught.He stood before us trembling,barely able to speak.
We finally made out that he and a companion had been cutting bamboo about two hundred yards from the road,preparatory to building a hut.An elephant had charged them and killed his friend while he,knocked down amid a lot of broken bamboo,crawled under it and had miraculously escaped.Nobody would venture into the bamboo to make a try at recovering the dead mans body.Bill absolutely forbade any such attempt.he knew the danger better than us.
We went on to the resthouse,and i was standing looking at the magnificent view-one of the finest in the world-while
the boys put up the tents,when two natives,streaming with perspiration and frightened half to death,ran into camp,and dropped down panting.When they could speak they told us that they had been traveling with two companions along the trail at the foot of the bamboo ridges when elephants charged from the bamboo and killed the other two.
Bill told me the elephants were unusually vicious here because the natives made a practice of stealing up on them and shooting them with poisoned arrows.
The elephants technique of attack is first to fell his victim with a blow from his trunk.He then kneels and gores the prone form with his tusks,after which he macerates it with his front feet.Next he picks up what remains of his enemy and flings it seventy-five or a hundred feet away.Finally he walks around in a circle for perhaps two hours,watching to see if the victim stirs.If it does,he returns to gore it again.This last peculiarity of waiting to see if his victim is dead makes it dangerous to approach the body of an elephant kill until a good many hours have passed.Nothing but luck had prevented just such an attack on our party,when we traveled this same dangerous trail.......
Hope you brothers enjoyed it!
Be carefull out there!!!

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Nframe
.275 member


Reged: 29/12/04
Posts: 79
Loc: United States
Re: Black Death Charges [Re: blackbearhunter]
      #26056 - 10/02/05 09:14 PM

I got charged by a squirrel that my dog had been messing with when I let him run in the park. He ignored the dog which was a pup at the time and came straight for me, lunged and missed, at this point I remembered rabies and gave him a solid boot at which point he went back up the tree and chattered at me. It was really funny looking back on it. I believe that Capstick had an encounter with a Jaguar in South america, it got him in the foot.

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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39680
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Black Death Charges [Re: Nframe]
      #68147 - 28/12/06 12:02 AM

BTTT. Christmas thread "spinner".

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