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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Building Double Rifles & Gunsmithing
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Powertrip
.224 member


Reged: 06/01/09
Posts: 6
Loc: Illinois, USA
Newbie question
      #236190 - 28/09/13 05:41 PM

It seems a given that for the big bore conversions a very large donor gone is necessary.

Does this hold true if you are intending to do a BPE conversion instead of nitro express power levels? Specifically 500BPE or 577.

Thanks!

Edited to add: Specifically, wondering if for a light loaded 577, something like a Stoeger could be used. If that is a big negative, http://www.pioneer-pac.com/shotguns/1.html ?

Thanks again!

Edited by Powertrip (28/09/13 05:53 PM)

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Birdhunter50
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Reged: 03/06/07
Posts: 815
Loc: Iowa,U.S.A.
Re: Newbie question [Re: Powertrip]
      #236217 - 29/09/13 08:50 AM

I would suggest a 10 gauge frame for the .577 and either a light 10 or a heavy 12 for the .500. you really don't want to go too light with either of them. Bob

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Powertrip
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Reged: 06/01/09
Posts: 6
Loc: Illinois, USA
Re: Newbie question [Re: Birdhunter50]
      #236219 - 29/09/13 10:25 AM

Thanks. Can you think of any US made sxs shotguns currently in production fitting these criteria?

Thanks. I am way out of my depth outside of law enforcement firearms.

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Birdhunter50
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Reged: 03/06/07
Posts: 815
Loc: Iowa,U.S.A.
Re: Newbie question [Re: Powertrip]
      #236242 - 30/09/13 06:39 AM

There really are no good American made shotguns fit for conversion. There are several good imported shotguns though. You need to find one with double underlugs and a third fastener on it. If it has bushed firing pins and double triggers on it, that is better yet. The only guns that I am aware of that would fit your criteria are a 10 gauge Zabala or a Greener Empire model. Some of the older Richland doubles were also made by Zabala. Some will have a Greener type crossbolt on them and some have what's called a hidden third bite or a Purdy bolt. It slides out of the action as it closes and covers up a rib extension that protrudes from between the barrels and goes through the extractor. Either type is fine for a conversion. You should be able to find a good Zabala ten gauge for around five or six hundred dollars. Many of them will be priced higher than that but you should be able to find one in that price range if you look hard enough. I hope this helps. Bob

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Aaron_Little
.300 member


Reged: 25/09/13
Posts: 109
Loc: Newark, TX
Re: Newbie question [Re: Birdhunter50]
      #236245 - 30/09/13 07:09 AM

When it comes to action size its all in the numbers. I like .200" minimum wall thickness in the chamber area, doesnt matter if its BPE or NE(my opinion). To determine if the action size will work find the dia of the breach faces(each fence) by measuring from the center of the firing pin hole to the outer edge of the breach face, then double it. That will give you the diameter of each barrel where it meets the breach face. Obviosly the barrels wont both fit on the breach face, you must bring the barrels closer together to fit. Find the width of the entire breach face, the subtract that number from both barrel dia added together. take that number divided by two and that tells you how much you have to mill off of each barrel to bring them together so they fit on the breach face. this area is where your minimum wall thickness wil be. I like .200". I have seen some larger calibers like the .600 NE with .160" wall thickness in this area.

I dot know of any older American produced doubles that will work perfectly. The Rem 1894 has adequate locking mechanisms, but the thickness of the breach face behind each cartridge isnt great.

Bailey Bradshaw and I are making a Westley Richards style det lock that would work.

--------------------
A.M. Little Bespoke Gunmakers LLC.
Michael08TDK@yahoo.com
682-554-0044

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Aaron_Little
.300 member


Reged: 25/09/13
Posts: 109
Loc: Newark, TX
Re: Newbie question [Re: Aaron_Little]
      #236246 - 30/09/13 07:38 AM

If you are looking for a boxlock the strongest is going to be a Greener Facile Princeps. I'd love to do a conversion on one.

Other actions include Simson Suhl, they can be had for under $800. If you want a sideplate gun you may tru to find a "BC My Luck"(now BC Miroku) they used to produce a H&H style action, they are hard to find though. H&H Dominion actions are also great.

For something different there is a Husqvarna hammer gun with Jones underlever on GunsInternational that could possibly be converted to a double rifle, only thing I wonder about is the thickness of the standing breach. Otherwise it a very classy gun.

--------------------
A.M. Little Bespoke Gunmakers LLC.
Michael08TDK@yahoo.com
682-554-0044

Edited by Aaron_Little (30/09/13 08:46 AM)

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Shotgunlover
.224 member


Reged: 24/08/13
Posts: 45
Loc: Greece
Re: Newbie question [Re: Aaron_Little]
      #236256 - 30/09/13 08:32 PM

CIP, the Proof people, have issued a series of guidelines on minimal wall thickness on various types, among them double rifles, and that might be useful for designing. I am told that this info is now available free of charge at the CIP website.

A thought re shotgun to DR projects- the strongest action is a back action hammer gun. In addition to a solid bar it offers the benefit of simplicity, there are no timing considerations, ie cocking, ejection, etc, to complicate matters for the first timer. If the action is well regulated and spring power is balanced the hammer gun can be surprisingly easy to manipulate. It also has the benefit of rebound action and incorporates a passive safety system that prevents hammer to firing pin contact unless the trigger is pressed.

Back action hammer doubles were produced in their thousands by various Italian makers in the 50s to 70s, some of these firms have become famous today, like Armitalia of the Lucchini family.

--------------------
Shotgunlover

Edited by Shotgunlover (30/09/13 09:17 PM)

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