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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Building Double Rifles & Gunsmithing
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savage458
.275 member


Reged: 16/04/12
Posts: 68
Loc: Indiana, USA
Long search for shotgun, 405 conversion
      #231901 - 01/07/13 12:10 AM

405 Lion Medicine

Finally found shotgun for 405 conversion. Its "FELAG ARMS" Belgium 16 gauge Nitro proofed, Greener crossbolt with 4th bite, Gusseted. Locking lugs timed "On circle" barrels marked in Gold inlay "SUPER QUALITY" tight on face, open or closed. False side locks. Test fired it with RUGER load 45-70 barrel insert, both sides. No problem. Large fire-pins will be redone, bushed, as Ellis Brown suggested. Who makes good barrels for this type conversion for 405 Win. ? Is rifle twist same as in RUGER 405 and 450-400 ?

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savage458
.275 member


Reged: 16/04/12
Posts: 68
Loc: Indiana, USA
Re: Long search for shotgun, 405 conversion [Re: savage458]
      #232731 - 20/07/13 10:17 PM

hello again

I was asking for help, if someone knows what barrel twist i should order for 405 Win. DR conversion, and got 0 answers. Hope someone there did 405 DR build, and can suggest barrel twist ! Thanks guy's any help is welcome.

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Grenadier
.375 member


Reged: 20/02/08
Posts: 570
Loc: North of the Columbia, USA
Re: Long search for shotgun, 405 conversion [Re: savage458]
      #232760 - 21/07/13 12:55 PM

McGowen has what you need: http://www.mcgowenbarrel.com/catalog1.htm

Go down the page to 405 Caliber, "Available in various contours up to 30" finished length. Twists Available: 1-14" (6 Groove). Chamberings Available: 405 Winchester"

--------------------
~

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savage458
.275 member


Reged: 16/04/12
Posts: 68
Loc: Indiana, USA
Re: Long search for shotgun, 405 conversion [Re: Grenadier]
      #232850 - 24/07/13 06:01 AM

Grenadier

Thanks, it looks good. I am surprised that no one did DR 405 Win. conversion, wonder why ? Its great cartridge, plenty of power for most game, bullet choices also. What gives ?
My RUGER 405 shoots better then i can, why it isn't popular in USA any more ? Do we really have to shoot only British NE guns to enjoy our hunting-shooting sport ?

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Birdhunter50
.375 member


Reged: 03/06/07
Posts: 815
Loc: Iowa,U.S.A.
Re: Long search for shotgun, 405 conversion [Re: savage458]
      #232886 - 25/07/13 06:19 AM

Savage458,
I have done two of them, one for a customer and one for myself. The customer choose to use a Beretta 409 crossbolt gun for a donor gun. I choose to use an old German Sauer and Sohn crossbolt gun for a donor as it had bad barrels on it. Both were done on 12 gauge frames and both used Mc Gowen barrels, 1 in 14 twist rate. I'm not sure but they may be the only game in town when it comes to this caliber. I was concerned that the twist rate might be a little too fast because I wanted to use 300 grain bullets, but I found out that they shot just fine.
This was one of those choices that I thought I would never make, to do a .405 Winchester over a good old 45/70. But I was offered a chance to buy a partially done conversion in .405 with new barrels on it for a reasonable price. I thought at the time it would save me allot of work, but I was mistaken. I had to tear down the whole gun and start over because the barrels were not turned down enough the first time and one side had had the chamber cut too deeply.
It was lots of work to get it all straightened out but there was a good payoff at the end. I found that using the same 300 grain bullet weight that I had loaded in the 45/70, that the .405 shot flatter and held up its energy better than the 45/70. I was very pleasantly surprised. I think you will like the .405. If you want to see a few pictures of one of them, send me a P.M. with your email address in it and I'll send you a few pictures of one. Good Luck with your conversion.
Bob

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savage458
.275 member


Reged: 16/04/12
Posts: 68
Loc: Indiana, USA
Re: Long search for shotgun, 405 conversion [Re: Birdhunter50]
      #232896 - 25/07/13 09:21 AM

Bob

Thanks, for your support, i was hoping that somebody can give me few tips on this build. I have 1st print of Teddy's book, with some color pictures, and i read it few times. Some other African hunting books, by famous writers, also. They are so well written that you think you are there with them. Enjoy them very much.
As you see, this is my reason to do 405 build. Lets stay in touch via e-mail.

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savage458
.275 member


Reged: 16/04/12
Posts: 68
Loc: Indiana, USA
Re: Long search for shotgun, 405 conversion [Re: savage458]
      #232897 - 25/07/13 09:29 AM

Bob

my business email is savaknives@att.net

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26992
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Long search for shotgun, 405 conversion [Re: savage458]
      #232908 - 25/07/13 03:24 PM

With today's powders you should be able to make about 2,300fps with a 300gr. & easily 2,200fps.

Using a good bullet, it will suffice for all NA game & similar African game, of course.

Although I'd prefer something .45 or .50cal. for brown bear or big grizzlies, it would certainly do for them, too.

The .405 is one of the very few calibres I've never used.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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savage458
.275 member


Reged: 16/04/12
Posts: 68
Loc: Indiana, USA
Re: Long search for shotgun, 405 conversion [Re: DarylS]
      #232923 - 25/07/13 11:29 PM

Daryl

I also never used 405 on game, but know friends that did. Really its not mush more powerful then 45-70 but i have Ruger #1 in 405, (that is 75th. An.) made in 1999 i think, engraved, very nice walnut stock.... nice gun.
I just wanted to build "Lion-medicine" DR for myself, that has some importance to me. After all, WHY NOT ? After talking with Ellis i know that i can do it. I built my jig's and special tooling, just to do this DR- conversion.I know metals and heat-treat process (im MASTER-SMITH-ABS knifemaker)so it won't be problem. Send me e-mail soon, if you wish. Best to you always.

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26992
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Long search for shotgun, 405 conversion [Re: savage458]
      #232924 - 25/07/13 11:37 PM

I do think it's a most worthwhile project & we must be kept abridge of your progress.
I do wish I had the skill and mind set to do such a project myself.
Best wishes to you too.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Ron_Vella
.333 member


Reged: 29/04/05
Posts: 432
Loc: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: Long search for shotgun, 405 conversion [Re: DarylS]
      #232979 - 27/07/13 03:19 AM

Savage,

I built a double rifle in calibre .450 #2 Nitro Express, about 10 years ago, using Douglas Supreme barrels, with a twist rate of 14". The rifle is regulated with 500 grain Hornady RNSP bullets but it shoots the 350 grain Hornady RNSP, designed for the .45-70, to the same point of impact. Last September I put a right and a left on the shoulder of a big bull Sable at 208 yards with that load. That's how well it shoots in a 14" twist.

Best,
Ron Vella.

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26992
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Long search for shotgun, 405 conversion [Re: Ron_Vella]
      #232993 - 27/07/13 07:21 AM

14" is actually quicker than needed for a .458, although my .458 2" with a 15" twist shot great with all weights except for 300gr.'ers. just goes to show you, twist rates in the larger calibres are not critical.

I'd think 14" is a wee bit faster than needed in a .405, but will work just fine, I'm sure.

Considering my 9.3 shoots cloverleafs with 293gr. and 300gr. bullets in it's 14" twist & 14" is the normal twist for .358's even, I suspect an 18" twist would also work just fine in a .405 so about anything available should work.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Rhodes
.275 member


Reged: 20/09/11
Posts: 94
Loc: NQ, Australia
Re: Long search for shotgun, 405 conversion [Re: savage458]
      #233052 - 28/07/13 01:59 PM

Quote:




I just wanted to build "Lion-medicine" DR for myself


I know metals and heat-treat process (im MASTER-SMITH-ABS knifemaker)so it won't be problem.



savage458

That is the best reason there is to build yourself a Double Rifle!

I hope you let us follow along with your progress in a project thread. It's always interesting to me and to others here I'm sure, to see the different techniques people use to put their projects together. Anything you can share on the black art of heat treating metal would also be a great addition to the collective genius of this forum.

Best
Rhodes

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savage458
.275 member


Reged: 16/04/12
Posts: 68
Loc: Indiana, USA
Re: Long search for shotgun, 405 conversion [Re: Ron_Vella]
      #233514 - 04/08/13 11:37 PM

Ron

Glad tom hear from you Ron. We have something in common, i lived in Widssor and know where you live. I would like to talk with you about my projects, DR biuld. Please post me your phone number, and best time to talk, i you wish.
I was reading your 9,3x74 build and just loved it. Also 303 got me really excited with possibility of using ROSS barrels for conversion. Not only because they are cheap, but saving OLD ROSS barrels, and giving them NEW life, is very appealing to me. Best wishes for your next build.

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savage458
.275 member


Reged: 16/04/12
Posts: 68
Loc: Indiana, USA
Re: Long search for shotgun, 405 conversion [Re: Rhodes]
      #233515 - 04/08/13 11:59 PM

Rhodes

Yes i agree with all of you that are building DR converting SxS shotguns ... the best reason is to do it as a challenge to see if you can do it. I own few double rifles, factory made and love to shoot them.
But, making your own, is another GAME for sure. Some members here have good ideas whats involved in doing these conversions, but some just hope to do it, one peace at the time, learning as they go. Its great... but please learn about metals first, all you can before starting. I retired from GM, and have many years of work with metals of all kinds. Machining, heat treating, teaches you the way metals behave. I am now MASTER-SMITH in ABS, and i make knives of highest caliber, so you see i am talking from experience. Ellis Brown's book is something that we just HAVE to HAVE. Learn from others first, then go slow and SAFE.

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