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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Single Shots & Combination Guns
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casper50
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Reged: 18/10/07
Posts: 1445
Loc: Alaska
Does the BATF have an obsolete caliber list?
      #226023 - 27/02/13 02:37 AM

Does the BATF have an obsolete caliber list? If so can someone point me to it? I can't find my way around the website. Thanks

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Caprivi
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Reged: 30/09/08
Posts: 811
Loc: America's Serengeti, Buffalo W...
Re: Does the BATF have an obsolete caliber list? [Re: casper50]
      #226025 - 27/02/13 02:56 AM

No they don't. There is a very loose interpretation of what a curio&relic is, but no obsolete.

Don't bank on there being exemptions either with pending regulations. Rumours/gut feeling/gossip is ,If I may be so bold to say, they will not rehash the EU/Au/Canada model of picking away. The general mode in DC is that they will run right to the forefront....... no buy backs or eligelble to transfer. Whatever is deemed un-ownable will be confiscated. No reimbursemnet and no way to sell off. I would think one more orchestrated school shooting will work out well and then the excutive orders will fly. Of course it will be targeted at box fed semi-autos, all full autos, more than 2 shot shotguns.....etc....that sort of thing. This will take forever to enforce. Our doubles and old Edwardian singles and bolts will probably be okay for a while.

--------------------
To live life as it is handed to me from God

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casper50
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Reged: 18/10/07
Posts: 1445
Loc: Alaska
Re: Does the BATF have an obsolete caliber list? [Re: Caprivi]
      #226026 - 27/02/13 02:59 AM

I'm trying to get a Martin in 500-450 into the coutnry as an antique. I'm anticipating trouble with customs at Denver. Just trying to prove that it's an antique.

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Caprivi
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Reged: 30/09/08
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Re: Does the BATF have an obsolete caliber list? [Re: casper50]
      #226027 - 27/02/13 03:07 AM

Who are you using for importation ???
It will not be classified as a antique, being a cartridge gun, but will indeed be a "curio&relic"
Where is it coming from ??? I am currently involved in a import (well not involved, I paid for and set back to let a importer handle it) and it is all going smoothly. From UK to Boulder Colorado, then I will make a weekend of it to go get it.

--------------------
To live life as it is handed to me from God

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casper50
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Reged: 18/10/07
Posts: 1445
Loc: Alaska
Re: Does the BATF have an obsolete caliber list? [Re: Caprivi]
      #226028 - 27/02/13 03:21 AM

It's pre 1898 so it is an antique. Cartridge gun or not. I've been through this before.

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bonanza
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Reged: 17/05/04
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Re: Does the BATF have an obsolete caliber list? [Re: casper50]
      #226029 - 27/02/13 03:31 AM

http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-11/atf-p-5300-11.pdf

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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DoubleD
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Reged: 23/11/03
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Re: Does the BATF have an obsolete caliber list? [Re: casper50]
      #226030 - 27/02/13 03:53 AM

The antique classification has nothing to do with caliber, it has to do with when the gun was made.

The GCA Defines an antiques firearm as one made in or before 1898.

If you can prove the gun was made in or before 1899 you can present the following statement to Customs when you clear the gun:

To whom it may concern,


The enclosed firearm was manufactured in or prior to 1898 and meets the definition of an antique firearm under Title 18 Chapter 44 section 921 (a) (16) of the Gun Control Act of 1968. For the purposes of importation under Part 47, this firearm is defined as not a firearm in Subpart B section 47.11. Part 178 Subpart G 178.115 makes the importation of this firearm an exempt importation. No ATF Form 6 import license is required.


This firearm is being imported for personal use and is not for resale. This firearm is exempt from duties as an Antique under HTS 9706.0000.60.

Of course this is not to say Custom will clear the gun before confirming with ATF.

You better be able to provide proof the gun was made in or before 1898.

The best way to avoid problems with Custom these days is to submit an ATF form 6 and a cover letter asking ATF to confirm the gun is an antique. Take the reply letter from ATF with you to Customs. They may call to verify the letter but you should not have any problem clearing the gun with the ATF letter.

--------------------
DD, Ret.

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casper50
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Reged: 18/10/07
Posts: 1445
Loc: Alaska
Re: Does the BATF have an obsolete caliber list? [Re: DoubleD]
      #226046 - 27/02/13 08:55 AM

I do know the 1898 has to do with when it was made. I'm just trying to get all of the ammo that I can to give them. The 577-450 is classified as a curio and relic cartridge. I just read it.

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DoubleD
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Reged: 23/11/03
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Re: Does the BATF have an obsolete caliber list? [Re: casper50]
      #226052 - 27/02/13 11:26 AM

Did you read it on an ATF Website or did you see it on the net?

I have never found an official source or a section the law that list description or definition of an antique cartridge. Point to it please.

The few times I have imported ammunition, with a gun, the ATF Form 6 was approved,

--------------------
DD, Ret.

Edited by DoubleD (27/02/13 11:27 AM)

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tinker
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Reged: 12/03/05
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Loc: Nevada
Re: Does the BATF have an obsolete caliber list? [Re: DoubleD]
      #226056 - 27/02/13 12:32 PM

Pinfire qualifies.
I've seen the letter. It would take hours of digging, I might be able to find a copy to post here.
Others such as teat fire and needle fire might get you there, buy I haven't seen a letter saying so for them.





Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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DarylS
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Re: Does the BATF have an obsolete caliber list? [Re: tinker]
      #226058 - 27/02/13 12:42 PM

Here in Canada the dates are earlier, I think - like 1885.

Even though it would likely end up in a court case, my 1871/76 Mauser would be exempt from being called a firearm.

It's chambered for the .450 Alaskan. 500gr. at 1,500fps.

Here, and handgun is a handgun if it fires RF or CF ammo and classified by the law pertaining to barrel length, ie; restricted or prohibited. A cap lock or flintlock, if the handgun is verified by the Mounted Police to have been produced prior to 1898, 1885, or 1875 (whichever that day is) is classified as an antique - a non-firearm.

now, I'm going to have to look that up.

The Criminal Code defines an antique firearm as:

Any firearm manufactured before 1898 that was not designed to discharge rim-fire or centre-fire ammunition, and that has not been re-designed to discharge such ammunition, or
Any firearm prescribed to be an antique firearm.

The following firearms are prescribed to be antique firearms under the Regulations Prescribing Antique Firearms:

Black Powder Reproductions:

of flintlock, wheel-lock or matchlock firearms, other than handguns, manufactured after 1897;

(Note that all other reproductions of long guns are considered non-restricted firearms. They don’t need to be registered but a licence to possess them is required. As an example, reproductions of percussion cap muzzle-loading firearms like American Civil War Enfield and Springfield rifles are considered non-restricted firearms and not antiques.)

The b0lded text explains that flintlock, wheel-lock and matchlock replicas are considered antiques - thus no license is required.

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casper50
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Reged: 18/10/07
Posts: 1445
Loc: Alaska
Re: Does the BATF have an obsolete caliber list? [Re: DarylS]
      #226064 - 27/02/13 06:04 PM

http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-11/atf-p-5300-11.pdf it's on here. There a whole list of cartridges

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AkMike
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Reged: 19/11/05
Posts: 2576
Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
Re: Does the BATF have an obsolete caliber list? [Re: casper50]
      #226089 - 28/02/13 07:10 AM

That was an interesting read mike.

Thanks!

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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