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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Paradox and Bore Guns
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Marrakai
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Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3592
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
A Paradox at Last! THE Paradox, in fact!
      #225961 - 26/02/13 02:12 AM

Long-time posters here may remember my long-standing desire to own a 12-bore paradox (yeah, who wouldn't?), and the implied "first right of refusal" I had been offered on a gun of my name-sake here in Australia's Top End many years ago.

As luck would have it, my good friend finally decided to move it on to make room for ever more exotic treasures, and I was given the opportunity to acquire this marvelous firearm. Best of all, it had been re-regulated in the interim on the advice of David Winks, and now shoots perfectly at practical hunting ranges.

The gun in question is an "Oranson", the boxlock extractor nitro paradox made by Holloway & Co for P. Orr & Sons of Rangoon and Madras. One may speculate that it was probably completed around 1924 or early 1925 as it turned up on licence in Bombay on 12th May 1925.

The right barrel is engraved with the inscription: "The Oranson" P.Orr & Sons, Rangoon & Madras, followed by the serial number of the gun.

The left barrel is inscribed with: Specially made by G & S Holloway Imperial Works Birmingham.

I have not yet shot this firearm seriously for target accuracy but my first half-dozen shots out of it (with cartridges loaded by the previous owner) knocked over every steel pig I fired at on the silhouette range! The targets I have attempted, standing supported, have returned 2-inch pairs at 50 metres, however the lead builds up quickly in the rifled chokes and after about 8 or 10 shots I start to lose bets!

The photos below are not brilliant but they should give you the general idea. Not included is a photo of my perpetually smiling face!!














Bring on the dry season! I really need to get this fabulous firearm out into the hunting field!

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

Edited by CptCurl (03/06/13 09:13 PM)

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: A Paradox at Last! THE Paradox, in fact! [Re: Marrakai]
      #225963 - 26/02/13 02:30 AM

Well, aren't you fortunate!! I'll bet that smile's a mile deep.
0000 steel wool is good for removing lead without hurting the rifling.
Right hand twist by the looks of the grooves. Bravo!

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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MikeRowe
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Reged: 23/11/11
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Loc: Arkansas, USA
Re: A Paradox at Last! THE Paradox, in fact! [Re: DarylS]
      #225965 - 26/02/13 03:27 AM

That is a neat gun. You won't need all those other ones now. Would you like me to look after them?

Have you checked the bullet alloy, as regards the leading. Messrs. Holland recommended a 1 in 15 mix if I remember correctly.

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transvaal
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Reged: 19/01/13
Posts: 131
Loc: South Carolina
Re: A Paradox at Last! THE Paradox, in fact! [Re: Marrakai]
      #225966 - 26/02/13 04:03 AM

A very lovely paradox you have there. Holloway made strong and well finished guns and your looks to be in very good condition. Beginning in 1921 the Birmingham proof house began to stamp "private view marks" on the barrel flats of most guns that they proofed and I assume rifles as well. These viewers marks were actually coded stamps that indicated the year the gun/rifle was proofed. The viewer marks for 1924 were crossed swords or sceptres with a capital letter "C" and for 1925 a capital letter "D". Actually the letter C is for 1July1923 to 30June1924 and the letter D is for 1July1924 to 30June1925. Letter A through Letter V were for years 1921 through 1941.

According to Nigel Brown in his book: "British Gunmakers" vol II, George & Sidney Holloway's records reside with Christopher Holloway at 5 Noble Avenue, Oldland Common, Bristol BS15 5YY, Telephone 01179 326713. From these record book Nigel Brown produced a chart of serial number ranges and the approximate year dates of production of the serial numbers. Brown indicates that for the year 1923 serial numbers in the 12800-13000 range were used; for year 1924 number in range of 13100-13400 were used and for the year 1924 the numbers range 13500-13600.

G&S Holloway made a lot of guns for the trade and I have one of their 20 gauge shotguns made for Thomas Henshaw, Dublin, which is identified as a G&S Holloway by the "H" preceding a serial number on the short rib between the barrel lumps and the fore end loop; and the cut away action standing breech.

G&S Holloway also favored the "cut away" style of action standing breech (that your gun has) in lieu of the other more common style of "ball" and "ball and bead". This is fortunate as the cut away standing breech has much more metal to support a Greener style cross bolt and heavy loads.

I hope this helps you date your new treasure.

Regards;
Steve Howell

Edited by transvaal (26/02/13 11:34 AM)

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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
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Re: A Paradox at Last! THE Paradox, in fact! [Re: transvaal]
      #225977 - 26/02/13 05:42 AM

congratulations!
does it mean you have now enough guns marakai?

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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HistoricBore
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Reged: 28/09/11
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Loc: United Kingdom
Re: A Paradox at Last! THE Paradox, in fact! [Re: lancaster]
      #225978 - 26/02/13 05:48 AM

... and how many is "enough"?

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tinkerModerator
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Reged: 12/03/05
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Re: A Paradox at Last! THE Paradox, in fact! [Re: HistoricBore]
      #225983 - 26/02/13 07:02 AM

Very nice.

Can't wait to see your reports from the field!





Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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bonanza
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Re: A Paradox at Last! THE Paradox, in fact! [Re: Marrakai]
      #225996 - 26/02/13 11:29 AM

Marrakai,

You've been gone for some time, welcome back and can't wait to see the field report.

Blair

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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Ben
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Posts: 1917
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Re: A Paradox at Last! THE Paradox, in fact! [Re: bonanza]
      #226006 - 26/02/13 05:50 PM

Hey, good on you, Tony! Looking-forward to seeing it later on!

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gatsby
.375 member


Reged: 05/09/05
Posts: 862
Loc: inland valley CA USA
Re: A Paradox at Last! THE Paradox, in fact! [Re: DarylS]
      #226012 - 26/02/13 07:05 PM

Congratulations on your new acquisition. Now that you have one you won't want to be without it. Can we see the proof marks?

--------------------
"Recoil is insignificant when there is a tiger on the head of your elephant" The Maharaja of Cooch Behar



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nitro450exp
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Reged: 06/09/07
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Loc: Michigan, USA
Re: A Paradox at Last! THE Paradox, in fact! [Re: gatsby]
      #226024 - 27/02/13 02:42 AM

Congrats !
A beauty, one day I hope to have a true Paradox.
Looking forward to the charging beasties report.

Nitro

--------------------
"Man is a predator or at least those of us that kill and eat our own meat are. The rest are scavengers, eating what others kill for them." Hugh Randall

45/70 DR / 12ga Paradox
470 NE DR
12 Bore DR
20 Bore DR
450 NE SR
577 NE SR

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AkMike
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Reged: 19/11/05
Posts: 2576
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Re: A Paradox at Last! THE Paradox, in fact! [Re: nitro450exp]
      #226032 - 27/02/13 04:45 AM

That's a very nice looking gun! Congrats!

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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Matabele
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Reged: 16/09/10
Posts: 230
Loc: Zimbabwe
Re: A Paradox at Last! THE Paradox, in fact! [Re: AkMike]
      #226065 - 27/02/13 06:10 PM

Fantastic!! Super jealous too!!

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rigbymauser
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Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 1972
Loc: Denmark
Re: A Paradox at Last! THE Paradox, in fact! [Re: Matabele]
      #226080 - 28/02/13 01:36 AM

Quote:

Fantastic!! Super jealous too!!



No your not. You are very super jealous that you donīt have a gun that can spin your balls..

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Matabele
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Re: A Paradox at Last! THE Paradox, in fact! [Re: rigbymauser]
      #226084 - 28/02/13 04:18 AM



No your not. You are very super jealous that you donīt have a gun that can spin your balls..



Hahaha, that's my kind of humour

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39889
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Re: A Paradox at Last! THE Paradox, in fact! [Re: Marrakai]
      #226141 - 28/02/13 11:16 PM

Wundebar!

I hope you bring it to the Nationals shoot in July.

Well done on your long search and finally success.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Marrakai
.416 member


Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3592
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia
Re: A Paradox at Last! THE Paradox, in fact! [Re: NitroX]
      #230570 - 27/05/13 11:46 PM

Apologies for this late response, got busy with other things (other guns!) and overlooked my obligation here.

The Oranson is indeed a little older than I had presumed, based on it turning up on licence in Bombay on 12th May 1925.
Thanks for the prod Steve, I should have gone straight to Nigel Brown's excellent reference! The Holloway ledger is apparently a little discontinuous around the Great War, and it looks like this particular firearm may have been put together immediately before or during the commencement of hostilities, but not completed or retailed until the war ended. According to Nigel's Volume 2, Holloway serial numbers in the 10800 range were 'manufactured' in 1918.

I am left to wonder what adventures it may have witnessed from 1918 to 1925.

Regarding the 1925 licence issued in Bombay, there is a bit of a story there. The little green canvas hard-cover booklet that contained the fold-out firearm licence and the game licence relating to this firearm were separated many years ago, however the previous owner knew of its existence and managed to track it down and reunite the two! It now reposes with the Oranson Paradox once again, as it undoubtedly did back in India between the wars. Marvelous stuff!

Here's a few photos of the licences. Hope they are big enough to read clearly. Enjoy!













I was a bit disappointed to see that tiger was not on licence. I believe a special licence was needed for 'royal game'!

Also interesting to see the other firearms that Robert Gove Esq. thought necessary for sport and/or protection in Bombay at the time: a Winchester rifle in .401 and a 7.65 pistol.

For the shooter/collector of vintage British firearms, provenance like this from the Old Country or the Colonies is pure gold. A document of this nature speaks of sport and adventure in far off lands during the height of the Raj: it just doesn't get much better!

I 'spose I had better hit the books and find out what else Mr Gove accomplished during his life! Perhaps he did put a tiger on licence later in his expatriation....

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

Edited by CptCurl (03/06/13 09:13 PM)

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Ash
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Posts: 1653
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Re: A Paradox at Last! THE Paradox, in fact! [Re: Marrakai]
      #230947 - 07/06/13 06:50 PM

John, where are the nationals and are spectators permitted?

Marakai - Fantastic gun! Thought when i read the post you may have picked up the one on usedguns, but this isnt it.

Looking foward to pics of buff and pigs with it.

--------------------
.

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A10ACN
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Reged: 30/01/05
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Loc: USA
Re: A Paradox at Last! THE Paradox, in fact! [Re: Ash]
      #233488 - 04/08/13 09:56 PM

That Oranson is nice. The hunting license is cool as an Eskimo cucumber. Together they are treasure. Glad you got them back together.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: A Paradox at Last! THE Paradox, in fact! [Re: Ash]
      #233513 - 04/08/13 11:27 PM

Quote:

John, where are the nationals and are spectators permitted?

Marakai - Fantastic gun! Thought when i read the post you may have picked up the one on usedguns, but this isnt it.

Looking foward to pics of buff and pigs with it.



Sorry Ash, missed your question. The info was advertised elsewhere on NE. Indeed our Marrakai was the organiser.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Scrumbag
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Loc: Geneva, Switzerland
Re: A Paradox at Last! THE Paradox, in fact! [Re: NitroX]
      #233542 - 05/08/13 05:08 AM

Ah such a shame. The days when you went and asked for a permit from a British Gov't official and got what you wanted.

Still, awesome find and hope it brings you much pleasure!

ATB,

Scrummy

--------------------
98s: 9.3x62 & 7x64
.22s: Browning SA-22 & FN Trombone
Short-jobs: Sig P226 9mm, S&W25 .45 Colt, Colt Woodsman, S&W17

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CommandCar
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Loc: East Coast, USA
Re: A Paradox at Last! THE Paradox, in fact! [Re: Marrakai]
      #233795 - 08/08/13 01:48 PM

Nice paradox and nice documents...

Your paradox barreled action (at least) came out of the Paradox room at the Webley & Scott factory. I have a similar Paradox sold by Wm. Evans ca 1926. I was wondering if you might share chamber length, bore diameter, load or charge data inscribed on your double, weight, and any load data you might have.
My bore diameter is .735-6 (now anyway). I have to use harder 15:1 lead:tin slugs sized to .733. Accuracy is remarkable. I use a CBE solid paradox pattern mould (#735-735) that casts a slug identical in appearance to those in the modern H&H fodder. If you search NE, there is more info on several of my older posts.

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tinkerModerator
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Reged: 12/03/05
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Loc: Nevada
Re: A Paradox at Last! THE Paradox, in fact! [Re: CommandCar]
      #235257 - 07/09/13 07:40 AM

Marrakai have you printed targets with this gun yet?
I'm interested to see how well you'll make it run.





Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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