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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Single Shots & Combination Guns

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DonT
.224 member


Reged: 16/05/12
Posts: 33
Loc: Minnesota
I am probably going about this wrong......
      #225923 - 25/02/13 06:09 AM

Well I was at a gun show this weekend and ran in to some 9.3X72R ammo (see pics below). I have bumped into a few Drillings on the net in this caliber and thought it would be nice to have some ammo if the opportunity ever presented itself and one came to live at my house.. Figured I could always find a home for it if it i dind't find one...

I ended up investing about $70 in the 30 rounds which seemed to be a Fair Price and it was the only ammo in this caliber I was able to find.

I need a littel assistance though. Is the old ammo safe to shoot? The white box appears to be be stamped Speer but I cannot read the rest of it but the headstamp say DMW and the bottom of the box says Made in West Germany. The orange labeled boxes are RWS and from what I can make out they seem to be 193gr bullets loaded with 39 grains (?) of R5 (?)... I have no idea why the bullets are silver (maybe for hunting Werewolves... LOL)........

I know it is a bit backwards to by the ammo THEN look for a gun but this stuff seems to be getting just a bit hard to find. I never have been the brightest bulb on the tree...

Anyhow I have a few quesitons:
Can I presume this is berdan (vs Boxer) primed?
Anyone know if it would be corrosive?
Is it safe to shoot in a non-damascused barreled gun?
Is there an easy way to stop the corrosion of the brass without effecting the primer or powder until I find a gun?? Actually it would be nice to clean them up a bit. They are just dark, no real corrosion on them.

Finally if it is berdan primed, any thoughts on pulling the berdan primer, reaming the primer hole, enlarge it in a lathe and then soft soldier a brass plug where it was enlarged then redrilling the flash hole and recess for the primer so it would accept Boxer Large rifle Primers???

Thanks much for your help....

DonT


Edited by CptCurl (27/02/13 11:24 PM)


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casper50
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Reged: 18/10/07
Posts: 1445
Loc: Alaska
Re: I am probably going about this wrong...... [Re: DonT]
      #225924 - 25/02/13 06:15 AM

I did almost the same thing. I bought some cases, bullets a mold and dies before I got my drilling.
I've got a drilling I'm going to put up for sale as soon as I get a smith to make a new hingepin. It's a little loose.


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grandveneur
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Reged: 21/09/08
Posts: 1356
Loc: France / Germany
Re: I am probably going about this wrong...... *DELETED* [Re: DonT]
      #225928 - 25/02/13 07:34 AM

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26992
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: I am probably going about this wrong...... [Re: grandveneur]
      #225932 - 25/02/13 08:02 AM

I have never had difficulty shooting old factory ammo, as far as it being unsafe. The only problem I've had is misfires - both with factory and handloads if old enough.

I do not shoot ammo I purchase - you don't know for certain what is is in it.

The pointed ammo appears to not be loaded with a normal 9.2x72 bullet. I would not fire it, without pulling those bullets, then reloading with known components.

Mic the bullets and weight them.

The Euro ammo is more than likely Berdan primed.

I would find boxer primed brass and use that, however many loaders USED to load Berdan primed brass, NP. Proper de-priming tools are needed for reloading them along with the proper sized primers.

Slugging the bore is necessary before loading this round.

Quote:

Finally if it is berdan primed, any thoughts on pulling the berdan primer, reaming the primer hole, enlarge it in a lathe and then soft soldier a brass plug where it was enlarged then redrilling the flash hole and recess for the primer so it would accept Boxer Large rifle Primers???




I have seen this done with BP ctgs. like the .577-450, however I would not suggest doing this with the 9.3x72.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

Edited by Daryl_S (26/02/13 02:32 AM)


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grandveneur
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Reged: 21/09/08
Posts: 1356
Loc: France / Germany
Re: I am probably going about this wrong...... *DELETED* [Re: DarylS]
      #225934 - 25/02/13 08:09 AM

Post deleted by grandveneur

Edited by grandveneur (25/02/13 08:11 AM)


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eagle27
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Reged: 24/01/09
Posts: 1165
Loc: Rolleston, Christchurch, New Z...
Re: I am probably going about this wrong...... [Re: grandveneur]
      #225944 - 25/02/13 04:30 PM

Absolutely not a problem firing old ammo provided it is not badly corroded. The white packet with cartridges having the pointed bullet will be Speer/DWM so that ammo will not be that old and the Speer bullet a good one. Speer had an alliance with DWM for some years.

The RWS ammo will be good to go too. Many of the bullets for lower velocity German loaded cartridges used the 'silver' bullets, a nickel plated thin copper jacket. These were often target loads but okay on the thin skinned and light roe deer and small boar.

I use a product available here called "BrassBrite" a sort of liquid cream containing 3.7% w/v hydrochloric acid. Possibly similar to Brasso but more of an instant cleaner with only a little rubbing required for heavily tarnished brass cases. It does a nice job and just polishes off with a clean cloth although I use a damp (not soaking wet) cloth to neutralise any acid residue before polishing off.

If the cases are berdan primed it is better to stay with berdan. Very fiddly to try and convert to boxer although it can be done. I reload berdan primed Kynoch cases for my 404. Made up a pin to fit a spare Lyman decapping rod (22cal I think it is)out of a piece of strong spring steel. Set the case into the shell holder in the press with handle down and case protruding through the top of the press, feel the pin enter one of the twin flash holes and tap out the primer. Knocks out spent factory primers that have been shellaced in no problem.

To convert to boxer primers you need to put the deprimed berdan case upside down over a mandrel after knocking out the original primer, fill the twin flash holes by peening the raised anvil down flat, then bushing the usually larger berdan primer pocket down to the boxer dimension and then drilling a central single flash hole. It used to be possible to purchase thin hollow brass tube that would fit the OD/ID dimensions required for the bushings. I would not apply any heat near the case heads for soldering bushes in. Just make them a good snug fit, after all any primer only seats and seals with a good snug fit. As you can appreciate it is rather involved to convert to boxer primers, hence my preference and recommendation to stay with berdan primers if at all possible. At the end of the day you still have to knock out the berdan primer before you can convert anyway and most sizes of berdan primers are still available.

Edited by eagle27 (25/02/13 04:31 PM)


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AkMike
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Reged: 19/11/05
Posts: 2576
Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
Re: I am probably going about this wrong...... [Re: eagle27]
      #225953 - 25/02/13 07:17 PM

I usually pick up a set of dies before I get the rifle.
I call that 'incentive' to find the rifle to fit them.
Boxer and berdans are different diameters from the ones I have. Measure them to see if they compare to others you have on hand.
Boxer brass is available from Norma and loaded ammo is available from them and Privi Partizan.

--------------------
"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand


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Rolf
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Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 402
Loc: Germany, Bavaria
Re: I am probably going about this wrong...... [Re: AkMike]
      #225959 - 25/02/13 11:16 PM

Gentlemen,

if there is any desperate need in information on components and reloading data for the 9,3x72R (bullet dia. .364", bullet mass approx. 193grs)I might assist.

Please send me a PM.

best regards
Rolf


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Kiwi_bloke
.333 member


Reged: 03/09/09
Posts: 256
Loc: New Zealand
Re: I am probably going about this wrong...... [Re: Rolf]
      #227733 - 29/03/13 02:53 PM

I think Sinoxid is a RWS term for non-corrosive. I can't just at the moment find anything to confirm that.

I have used old Berdan primed cases. The RCBS Berdan de-primer usually knicks the anvil and water for hydraulic depriming just makes a mess. So instead I used 30-grade oil and they mostly all popped out using a tight fitting expander to form a seal at the neck. Still makes a mess, but at least oil doesn't create rust if you missed a spot to clean on the reloading press/dies etc. The you have to de-oil the case and dry it, of course. The "new" Berdans I primed with produced good, even velocities, quite on a par with Boxers. If I had a regular supply, I'd use them again.

What I'd suggest is, if/when you use these cases and they're empty, there are recipes for brass cleaning that use vinegar, washing powder, salt and hot water. Bound to be on the net, it was in an old Handloader's Digest. It's not abrasive and so the brass is left intact. That get's the main crud off. Then look at ultra-sonic cleaning and/or a vibratory case cleaner to polish them up.

Especially if you start having neck splits, I'd also then look at annealing their necks only in a few seconds in molten lead. Make sure the DEAD (never live) primer is in, as you don't want lead to move into the case as the air escapes. If it gets in, it will form hardened drops. I've done 6,5x54 M. Sch. this way. I also have a 9,3x72R. It lives at my gunsmiths house and one day he's going to phone me and say it's ready. One day soon....

S&B also make 9.3x72R so it's not too hard to find. The bullets are smaller than other 9.3's so be very careful about that. Don't rush off to buy a set of FL dies until you know what chamber you have. You'll find out as soon as you try to chamber one of those rounds you purchased, which I'd suggest are 9,3x72R Normal. If they don't drop all the way in, you might have one of the early chamber versions, D or E. You can still use the brass & bullets you have, but you'll need to pull the brass and re-size it and possibly remove some material from the front of the rim as well.

A friend of mine, Klaus, has a 9,3x72R. I think it's a 1890's Sauer hammer-Drilling. Perhaps it wasn't nitro-prooved, but he used black powder which he deemed to be much safer. I have some pictures of him using it at the range. You can just make him out under the large rain cloud


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