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Morten
.275 member

Reged: 24/04/04
Posts: 89
Loc: Ås, Norway

new 500/416 brls in a 500/465
#225846 - 23/02/13 09:04 PM

A friend of mine have a H&H royal from 1915 ish in 500/465. He is considering to have an new set of barrels made to it in 500/416 as he wish to have a 416 cal to use for hunting.

But im consirned about pressure and if it would bee any danger to fail Proof?

whats your thoughts on this matter gents??

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bonanza
.400 member

Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina

Re: new 500/416 brls in a 500/465 [Re: Morten]
#225849 - 24/02/13 01:03 AM

Pressure is not a problem. Would be a nice addition.

--------------------

"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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grandveneur
.400 member

Reged: 21/09/08
Posts: 1356
Loc: France / Germany

Re: new 500/416 brls in a 500/465 [Re: Morten]
#225850 - 24/02/13 01:51 AM

500/465 NE is a good cartridge . Where is the need for a 500/416 NE ?

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Morten
.275 member

Reged: 24/04/04
Posts: 89
Loc: Ås, Norway

Re: new 500/416 brls in a 500/465 [Re: grandveneur]
#225853 - 24/02/13 02:27 AM

When you want a 416 caliber, 465 will not fill the bill.

I read through the "is the 500/416 dead" thread and it was meny thoughts on this cartridge. And that it will have considerable pressure compared to the other "old" ne rounds.

Does anyone have some data on this the presure between 500/465 and 500/416?

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grandveneur
.400 member

Reged: 21/09/08
Posts: 1356
Loc: France / Germany

Re: new 500/416 brls in a 500/465 [Re: Morten]
#225857 - 24/02/13 02:37 AM

Today for a sucessfull hunting in Africa you need a rifle for shooting at long range . There are 10 days i have shot a buffalo at 200 yards . Better you buy a bolt action rifle caliber .416 with a scope . Together with your DR 500/465 NE you have in that case a good battery for Africa !

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xausa
.400 member

Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 2037
Loc: Tennessee, USA

Re: new 500/416 brls in a 500/465 [Re: grandveneur]
#225861 - 24/02/13 03:51 AM

Why doesn't your friend ask Holland & Holland about the advisability and cost of such an operation. I'm sure they will give him good advice. When your friend hears what the cost will be, I think he may reconsider. When you consider that the Royal Grade double rifle presently starts at 99,000 pounds, you may get a rough idea of what the extra barrel set would cost.

When you consider that a Krieghoff Big Five Classic costs $12,995 for the basic gun, and a set of double rifle interchangeable barrels in Big Five calibers costs $9350, you can see the problem.

To take full advantage of .416 accuracy and ballistics IMHO a scope is needed. A scope mounted H&H Royal is sacrilige. I believe a perfectly good .416 Rigby magazine rifle with scope can be had for a fraction of the cost of a new H&H barrel set, and a truly fine .416 Rigby magazine rifle can be had for the price of a second set of Krieghoff barrels.

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DvK
.224 member

Reged: 06/10/08
Posts: 33
Loc: Denmark

Re: new 500/416 brls in a 500/465 [Re: xausa]
#225892 - 24/02/13 08:12 PM

I must say that I do agree 100% wiht xausa on this one.
A .416" rifle for hunting is a sound choice, but the go for a bolt action wiht the benefit it will give you friend.

I would not consider for a moment changing the H&H!

DvK

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Morten
.275 member

Reged: 24/04/04
Posts: 89
Loc: Ås, Norway

Re: new 500/416 brls in a 500/465 [Re: DvK]
#225895 - 24/02/13 08:33 PM

The question is not if he should doo it compared to a 416 br, he already have a rigby in 416.

He want a double rifle in this caliber, and have a 500/465 that could fit nicely with an extra set in 500/416. I know very well what H&H would charge to make this, but this is not the question. It is about the pressure, in 500/416 compared to 500/465. will the 465 stand the proof of a new set of barrels in 500/416??

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Yochanan
.375 member

Reged: 26/01/03
Posts: 912
Loc: Volksdiktatur Schweden

Re: new 500/416 brls in a 500/465 [Re: Morten]
#225898 - 24/02/13 09:55 PM

Quote:

A friend of mine have a H&H royal from 1915 ish in 500/465. He is considering to have an new set of barrels made to it in 500/416 as he wish to have a 416 cal to use for hunting.

But im consirned about pressure and if it would bee any danger to fail Proof?

whats your thoughts on this matter gents??

Why not ask Holland & Holland and the Proofhouse? Quite logic, or? I'm quite confident they will let your friend know if there are any "issues" on this matter

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500Nitro
.450 member

Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia

Re: new 500/416 brls in a 500/465 [Re: Yochanan]
#225899 - 24/02/13 09:59 PM

Morton

Does you friends H&H have bolsters or not.

Reason I ask is after a certain time,
Holland added bolsters to the 375 and
above calibers to strengthen them.

Might give an indication as to can it handle them.

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Morten
.275 member

Reged: 24/04/04
Posts: 89
Loc: Ås, Norway

Re: new 500/416 brls in a 500/465 [Re: 500Nitro]
#225902 - 24/02/13 11:31 PM

this is before bolster erea, IE no bolsters. And this is one of my concirnes. I just wonder if there is any data between them.

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500Nitro
.450 member

Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia

Re: new 500/416 brls in a 500/465 [Re: Morten]
#225904 - 24/02/13 11:48 PM

Well considering Holland added bolsters after a few years
- I would say that says a lot.

I have seen quite a few 500/450 no bolster guns
with new 465 barrels then a few years, all new guns
seemed to have bolsters.

I'd get a 416 bolt gun instead of adding a set of 416 barrels.

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lancaster
.470 member

Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9286
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...

Re: new 500/416 brls in a 500/465 [Re: 500Nitro]
#225906 - 25/02/13 12:06 AM

sounds easy, you cut the original barrel down to 3-4" making a monoblock than starting with .416 barrels

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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Morten
.275 member

Reged: 24/04/04
Posts: 89
Loc: Ås, Norway

Re: new 500/416 brls in a 500/465 [Re: lancaster]
#225907 - 25/02/13 12:50 AM

So meny answers without answering what I actually ask for.

The gent already have a 416 boltrifle and all the other rifles he wish for, but want a set of barrels in 500/416, for his 500/465 as he want a double in 416. my consirn is if the pressure is dangerus for the action.

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grandveneur
.400 member

Reged: 21/09/08
Posts: 1356
Loc: France / Germany

Re: new 500/416 brls in a 500/465 [Re: Morten]
#225909 - 25/02/13 01:24 AM

Yes , with the max. load it is ! The 500/416 NE is a modern higher pressure cartridge , nothing for a classic old rifle .

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DvK
.224 member

Reged: 06/10/08
Posts: 33
Loc: Denmark

Re: new 500/416 brls in a 500/465 [Re: grandveneur]
#225912 - 25/02/13 03:24 AM

@Morten

You can have H&H built anything - just se the 700NE!
So you freind can have 500/416 "low pressure load" barrels fitted for his Royal. I just see two - for me better options:

1) Buy a new double fitted for the 500/416
2) Buy a used double in 450/400

To make knew barrels for the old gun would in my opion be a sinn.

DvK

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NitroX
.700 member

Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 40266
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: new 500/416 brls in a 500/465 [Re: DvK]
#226150 - 28/02/13 11:56 PM

Are there pressure tables or data for the .500/416 anywhere? I don't have the time for look for them. That should answer the enquirers question.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Morten
.275 member

Reged: 24/04/04
Posts: 89
Loc: Ås, Norway

Re: new 500/416 brls in a 500/465 [Re: NitroX]
#226156 - 01/03/13 01:54 AM

I have talked to the H&H gunroom and the response was that there was more than 900 bar more pressure in the 500/416 than in the 500/465 so they did not recomend to add a new set of barrels in 500/416 in a 500/465.

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grandveneur
.400 member

Reged: 21/09/08
Posts: 1356
Loc: France / Germany

Re: new 500/416 brls in a 500/465 [Re: Morten]
#226162 - 01/03/13 03:39 AM

You see !

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BigFiveJack
.333 member

Reged: 25/12/05
Posts: 256
Loc: Half hour North of Tampa Bay F...

Re: new 500/416 brls in a 500/465 [Re: grandveneur]
#227619 - 27/03/13 12:34 PM

Holland and Holland 375 Flanged Magnum.

--------------------
Cordially,
Jack

NRA Endowment Member
DRSS Member

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ozhunter
.400 member

Reged: 18/08/04
Posts: 1692
Loc: Sydney, Australia

Re: new 500/416 brls in a 500/465 [Re: BigFiveJack]
#227697 - 28/03/13 07:58 PM

No doubt the experts in Ferlach, Austria could do it for about $8000Euro, but please to it in the classic 450/400.

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BigFiveJack
.333 member

Reged: 25/12/05
Posts: 256
Loc: Half hour North of Tampa Bay F...

Re: new 500/416 brls in a 500/465 [Re: ozhunter]
#227805 - 01/04/13 02:29 PM

My suggestion...
http://www.gunsinternational.com/PRICE-R...un_id=100201151

--------------------
Cordially,
Jack

NRA Endowment Member
DRSS Member

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DUGABOY1
.400 member

Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA

Re: new 500/416 brls in a 500/465 [Re: BigFiveJack]
#227829 - 02/04/13 12:19 AM

Quote:

I have talked to the H&H gunroom and the response was that there was more than 900 bar more pressure in the 500/416 than in the 500/465 so they did not recomend to add a new set of barrels in 500/416 in a 500/465.

On a structural level your question is answered by H&H.

On a moral level even the thought of modifying a vintage H&H Royal is heresy.

On a Practical level older H&H doubles are not the strongest doubles and I doubt any double rifle smith worth his salt would fit a pair 500/416 barrels on a 500/465NE double rifle!

On a financial level, simply buy a Krieghoff 500/416 double for 1/3rd of the cost of a pair of H&H barrels or even less than the cost of a decent barrel set by any good smith. JJ new barrel sets run $7k + AMMO for regulation, and JJ will not make a pair of barrels for a cartridge that developes more pressure than the origenal barrels.

I vote “NO!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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