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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Single Shots & Combination Guns

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Northhunter
.224 member


Reged: 22/01/13
Posts: 5
Loc: Vermont, USA
BÜHAG SUHL INFO
      #224723 - 04/02/13 08:00 AM

I'm a new member. I've had the opportunity to pick up an Over-Under Combination Gun in 16x70mm over 8x57JRS from Simpsons. It is labeled BÜHAG SUHL. I haven't found any other makers name other than the GDR Proofs. I was wondering if anyone can explain to me how The Suhl Gunmakers operated during this period. It looks like a Merkel Over-Under Action to me. I'm new to Drillings and Combination Guns. I've always dreamed of owning one, and now that I've turned 50, I was able to obtain this gun and a J.P. Sauer 16x16x7x57R. I'm smitten. My long wait has been rewarded. I just thought you folks would be a good place to learn some about the Communist Period in Suhl. We Americans weren't allowed to import these when I was growing up in the Cold War. Thank you for your time and consideration.

Sincerely,
Northhunter.


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kuduae
.400 member


Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1801
Loc: middle of Germany
Re: BÜHAG SUHL INFO [Re: Northhunter]
      #224725 - 04/02/13 08:20 AM

While the larger Suhl factories like Sauer, Simson, Meffert and the three Merkels were taken over by the commies entirely, the small independent gunmakers with up to four emploiees were forced to join the Büchsenmacher - Handwerksgenossenschaft = BÜHAG. During GDR times they usually made special order guns. They depended on the BÜHAG for supplies and were not allowed to deal directly with customers, only through BÜHAG and the GDR export organisation. For more accurate info go to the German Gun Collectors website, www.germanguns.com .

--------------------
German foresters: We like sustainability! For merely 300 years by 2013.


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Northhunter
.224 member


Reged: 22/01/13
Posts: 5
Loc: Vermont, USA
Re: BÜHAG SUHL INFO [Re: kuduae]
      #224778 - 05/02/13 09:00 AM

Thank you for your help sir. So, if I understand you correctly, my Combination Gun was made in a small shop. Would they have made the whole gun, or would several shops have worked on the same gun for the collective to sell?

Thank you,
Sincerely,
Northhunter.


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lancaster
.470 member


Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9452
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: BÜHAG SUHL INFO [Re: Northhunter]
      #224795 - 05/02/13 04:02 PM

its common to find the makers name stamp into the break action frame like here in my own 16 ga double gun "Gebr. Adamy", one of the gunmaker still exist.



the Bühag gunmaker were got the blank parts like barrels or the actions from the Jagdwaffenwerk and build the gun traditional by hand. technical they are more or less the same like the models made by the jagdwaffenwerk. an uncle have a 8x57IRS o/u Bühag double rifle with sidelocks thats the same like a Merkel 323e.
but there also some special made things like the Vierling on egun last week.

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Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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Northhunter
.224 member


Reged: 22/01/13
Posts: 5
Loc: Vermont, USA
Re: BÜHAG SUHL INFO [Re: lancaster]
      #225050 - 10/02/13 05:25 AM

I did a closer inspection of the barrels and action, and while they are well marked, I still am unable to locate a makers name. The gun does, very much, resemble a picture I found of a Merkel O/U Combination Gun. My gun is quite plain. Only minimal scroll engraving on the case hardened action, and a nice straight grained stock with some decent contrast, but no real feathering or burl. It has a gentle "hog-back" comb with an oval cheek-piece. I have also recently discovered that the rifle barrel was counter-bored. I am guessing that it must have been shot frequently with corrosive ammo? The rifling is still very good, so I'm curious what possessed them to counter bore it back for nearly an "1 1/2? It shoots well enough so far. I've noticed that many of Simpson Ltd's guns have come here to the U.S. from Scandinavia. Since Sweden was a neutral country, they must have maintained commercial relations with Eastern Germany during the Post/Cold War years. It is becoming a weapon which I look forward to hunting with. Has anyone taken a Moose with the 8x57 IRS?

Thanks for your time gentlemen. There is much good information on your site, and I am enjoying your treasury of pictures as well.

Sincerely,
Northhunter.


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Igorrock
.400 member


Reged: 01/03/07
Posts: 1684
Loc: Finland
Re: BÜHAG SUHL INFO [Re: Northhunter]
      #225052 - 10/02/13 06:28 AM

Could you please send some fotos of watertable and proof marks.

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lancaster
.470 member


Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9452
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...
Re: BÜHAG SUHL INFO [Re: Northhunter]
      #225080 - 10/02/13 08:53 PM

Quote:

I did a closer inspection of the barrels and action, and while they are well marked, I still am unable to locate a makers name. The gun does, very much, resemble a picture I found of a Merkel O/U Combination Gun. My gun is quite plain. Only minimal scroll engraving on the case hardened action, and a nice straight grained stock with some decent contrast, but no real feathering or burl. It has a gentle "hog-back" comb with an oval cheek-piece. I have also recently discovered that the rifle barrel was counter-bored. I am guessing that it must have been shot frequently with corrosive ammo? The rifling is still very good, so I'm curious what possessed them to counter bore it back for nearly an "1 1/2? It shoots well enough so far. I've noticed that many of Simpson Ltd's guns have come here to the U.S. from Scandinavia. Since Sweden was a neutral country, they must have maintained commercial relations with Eastern Germany during the Post/Cold War years. It is becoming a weapon which I look forward to hunting with. Has anyone taken a Moose with the 8x57 IRS?

Thanks for your time gentlemen. There is much good information on your site, and I am enjoying your treasury of pictures as well.

Sincerely,
Northhunter.




dont worry, the gun were always gone were the money was. I believe most bühag guns were sold in west germany despite of the cold war, even in winter times. they were follow the old routes into the pre war sales markets and yes usually to find in scandinavian gunauctions today.

8x57IRS will take any north american game

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by lancaster (10/02/13 08:53 PM)


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Northhunter
.224 member


Reged: 22/01/13
Posts: 5
Loc: Vermont, USA
Re: BÜHAG SUHL INFO [Re: lancaster]
      #225455 - 18/02/13 01:32 AM

I am working with my daughter, who owns a digital camera, to obtain pictures for posting.

I had the opportunity to shoot the gun some, along with my recently acquired J.P.Sauer Drilling. My first impression is that the European loaded 8x57JRS is a stout cartridge! I can see that it should be an ideal gun for white-tailed dear and black bear, and I would imagine it will handle our North Eastern U.S. Moose. It was a very cold day. 0 degrees Fahrenheit. The Zeis Jena scope did not fogg going in and out of doors. However, the gun did shoot far to the left by nearly two feet. The scope does have wind-age adjustments. I am not apparently familiar with German scopes. The dial marked "R" in fact, moved bullet placement further to the left. By turning it in the opposite direction I was able to pull bullet placement to the right. However I did run out of adjustment just shy of "zero". My claw mounts have an adjustment screw set-up on both sides of the rear mount. I am searching for a screw driver which will fit the slots, and will probably end up grinding one to fit. There are slots on both sides of the mount pillar. Am I looking at a system similar to a Leupold or Redfield Universal Mount, where you loosen one side and tighten the other, or is this one screw, run all the way through, that you simply turn, as in a receiver aperture type sight? My J.P. Sauer has the same style claw mounts, with the marking "Akah".

I very much enjoyed my session with both guns. The Drilling, a 16/16x70 over 7x57R needed nothing, and placed all three shots in the same pattern with the rifle centered in the middle of the shot pattern. The Combination Gun put it's rifle bullet at the Six O'Clock position to the shot pattern. Still very workable for hunting. I ran out of time and was getting cold. I would like to shoot both over their iron sights next time. The Combination Gun has a dual sight which flips down to reveal a deep "U" for the shotgun barrel, and flips up to show a fine "U" for the rifle barrel. Both guns are extremely compact and fast handling. In fact the Drilling is deceivingly light with the scope detached.

I consider myself lucky to have had the opportunity to obtain both guns, as these would normally be considered beyond the reach of a man of my means here in the U.S. I own a hilly farm with a good stand of timber, and find these weapons ideally suited to my type of hunting. I can't wait 'til next fall.

I am very much enjoying your web-site! Such beautiful old weapons! Also a wonderful source of information. I am happy to see these guns in practical use as well. I hope whom-ever owned the two fine weapons I have acquired, knows that they have found a good home and will be respected and cared for. If I'm lucky enough, come next season, I will be able to post some pictures from a successful hunt!

Sincerely,
Northhunter


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