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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Building Double Rifles & Gunsmithing
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Matabele
.300 member


Reged: 16/09/10
Posts: 230
Loc: Zimbabwe
Some shotgun action to DR questions
      #224417 - 28/01/13 11:00 PM

Hi all,

I dropped by a couple of gun dealers near me and had a look at their shotguns to see if there was anything that might make a good donor gun for a DR conversion. I found a really nice little .410 Bernadelli S/S (snap underlever) which I might buy anyway. However its one of those typical .410's that hinges at the hinge pin to fold almost in half, i.e. you cant remove the barrels from the action without driving out the hinge pin. So do you know if it would be suitable for a conversion to .22 LR or .22 Hornet?

The other action is a "Belgian Manufacture" 20 gauge S/S, no makers name although it has the made in Belgium engraved on the barrels. The engraving looks pretty good, it has side clips, Greener cross bolt, reinforced fences/root and the action still shows traces of colour casing. Seems like it was a nice gun in its day although the woodwork has def looked better. It seems to me to still be on face and locks up tightly though. The barrles however are quite badly pitted. What do you think the most suitable calibre would be for this action? Could I get a .303 Brit or 6.5x53R out of it or would a less intense calibre be reccomended like 30-30?

I have Ellis Browns book but he doesnt cover these questions, unless I missed it.

Any input appreciated, thanks!

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twobobbwana
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Reged: 25/11/11
Posts: 299
Loc: Queensland, Australia
Re: Some shotgun action to DR questions [Re: Matabele]
      #229909 - 10/05/13 02:34 PM

Matabele,

I've got a Belgian 20 guage of about the same description, although the barrels are too good to trash.

Mine was "off face" but I've sorted that out.

My first thoughts were .30/30 as a good "kick em out and shoot them" pig rifle. I believe that weight for calibre it would make up into a good light "carry always in the hands" rifle.

Friends are trying to push the .303 British.........to some success. However I'm wondering whether it'll finish up too light for calibre.......and I don't really need more than the .30/30....!!??

.30/40 Krag was another option though cases may prove difficult to come by.

Both cartridges would be a great rifle for most plains game..........not eland....given good projectiles and bullet placement. Certainly it would suit the smaller stuff like Impala, Reedbuck, Warthog, Bushpig, Sprinbok, Blesbok, Inyala..........but I'm sure nobody would want me shooting at their pet Kudu, Zebra, Waterbuck with it........or for that matter Eland.

With long/heavy for calibre projectiles both would provide good enough penetration for most game.

Ellis' book provides calculations to help determine cartridges for you conversion........keep reading it.

I believe that you'd go far with a scope sighted double in .30/30, .303 or .30/40 Krag while enjoying the handiness of a light gun to carry and mild recoil.

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Matabele
.300 member


Reged: 16/09/10
Posts: 230
Loc: Zimbabwe
Re: Some shotgun action to DR questions [Re: twobobbwana]
      #229954 - 12/05/13 03:46 AM

Thanks for the reply twobob. Yes a light and handy double is exactly what I was after and I agree with your choice of calibres...with the right bullets those will really punch above their weight, "make their eyes water" as my great Uncle used to enjoy saying. If the .303 gets the go ahead it'll be using 215gr softs exclusively.

I must say I rushed through Ellis book, I was so intent on reading the whole thing through and getting to the next chapter I may well have missed a few points, I found it enthralling. I'll have another look and find those calculations.

Thanks again, and please keep us posted on the conversion of your "Belgian". Cheers for now.

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Birdhunter50
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Reged: 03/06/07
Posts: 815
Loc: Iowa,U.S.A.
Re: Some shotgun action to DR questions [Re: Matabele]
      #230118 - 16/05/13 12:39 AM

Matabele,
Much depends on how you load it but a 30/30 is pushing the limit for a conversion caliber. I know that many makers make rifles in bigger and more intense calibers, but those are not conversions from a shotgun. Your donor gun sounds just fine for something like the 30/40 Krag or even a senseably loaded 30/30.

The problems start when some unknowing person sees that it is 30/30 and figures it is all right to load it up with some of the new, more intensely loaded cartridges that shoot flater. Some of these new "extended range" loads have to be really pushing the limit.
All three calibers you mentioned will work just fine. With the 30/40 being the mildest, I would lean in that direction, except for the fact as already stated, that brass will be hard to come by.
303 used to be dead cheap and available anywhere, but I don't suppose it is anymore. Given all that, I would think a 30/30 loaded senseably and clearly marked with the load info would be a good way to go. Any of the three would make you a good treking rifle for plains game. Bob

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Rhodes
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Reged: 20/09/11
Posts: 94
Loc: NQ, Australia
Re: Some shotgun action to DR questions [Re: Birdhunter50]
      #230144 - 16/05/13 07:35 PM

Matabele,

As long as the hoop strength of the barrels can contain the pressure within the cartridge, and that shouldn't be a problem with a 20ga action and modern barrels, everything should be good there. I'm pretty sure Ellis has this calc in his book.

I think people sometimes focus on cartridge pressure without taking actual bolt thrust into account as this is the force back into the action and probably a more important consideration in selecting a suitable shotgun action. You can have two different cartridges loaded to the same pressure, yet the round with the smaller case head diameter will have less bolt thrust. I did some rough calc's for the cartridges mentioned above to show this. As an aside, I don't have the knowledge or expertise to be giving advice on this subject, just giving you a guide in which direction to focus your enquiries. This info should be confirmed by someone with more knowledge than I.

Using SAAMI max pressure I get bolt thrust as follows:

* 30-30 Win = 5,277 lb
* 30-40 Krag = 6,909 ib
* 303 Brit = 7,249 lb

Once again, these figures should be confirmed by someone else. You really need to check the proof stamping on the shotgun to confirm the action will handle this thrust safely.

But.......this is only part of the equation. I've read some interesting testing which showed that the more taper a case has, the more thrust is transfered back into the action. This suggests going with an Ackley improved variant of the cartridge would be the way to go.

Hope this helps.

Rhodes
DRSS

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