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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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anchoryanker
.224 member


Reged: 14/06/04
Posts: 3
buying first double, need chambering advice
      #22417 - 19/12/04 10:28 PM

In the next few months I will be buying my first double, probably a searcy PH model. I want something in a nitro caliber, and was considering the various chamberings between .470 to .577. what are the various advantages between the cartridges? I am considering the .470 due to the ammo being slightly more available, but I am a serious reloader so other calibers wouldn't be a problem. For the same price would the .500 nitro be a better choice? If I could get a .577 for nearly the same price would it be even better? I've always thought for the same price bigger is better, but in this case it may not. I plan on hunting Africa in the next few years, and this would be used on buffs and hopefully one day I'd like to take an elephant with it. As far as penetration and knockdown power goes between the three, if anyone has any knowledge or real world experience to share, it would be appreciated. Links to sites with info too would be great.

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500grains
.416 member


Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
Loc: Salt Lake City, Utah USA
Re: buying first double, need chambering advice [Re: anchoryanker]
      #22424 - 20/12/04 01:41 AM

I have a Searcy in .500 Nitro, but I must be realistic about the fact that if the airline loses my ammo suitcase, then I will probably be unable to find replacement ammo. The chance of finding replacement ammo for a .470 is much greater.

Also you may want to consider recoil. My .500 kicks a lot more than the .470's that I have shot. It is enough of a difference that I think most shooters will be better marksmen with a .470.

As for a .577, the rifles are just too heavy to take on long stalks at a rapid walking pace. So I would stick to either .470 or .500.

Good luck!

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4seventy
Sponsor


Reged: 07/05/03
Posts: 2210
Loc: Queensland Australia
Re: buying first double, need chambering advice [Re: anchoryanker]
      #22433 - 20/12/04 08:44 AM

In reply to:

I want something in a nitro caliber, and was considering the various chamberings between .470 to .577.



577....too heavy!
470....everyone's got one!

Get the 500! Just right!

Edited by 4seventy (20/12/04 08:48 AM)

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Rusty
.333 member


Reged: 08/02/03
Posts: 464
Loc: Missouri City, Texas
Re: buying first double, need chambering advice [Re: anchoryanker]
      #22434 - 20/12/04 09:10 AM

As for me, I'd get the chambering that you'd be sure not to find.
A 450/400 3 inch. You get a nice long .408 caliber, 400 grain bullet that penetrates very well. You have a more versatile double rifle that you can hunt more with. Regulated at a 60 Cord equivalent it gives you 2150 FPS.
Recoil is substantially less than a 470.

A rifle you can hunt Impala, Deer, Kudu, Warthogs, and still have enough gun to swat the big stuff with. And Butch will build ya one too!

Just my opine.

--------------------
Rusty
We band of brothers!
DRSS

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DUGABOY1
.400 member


Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA
Re: buying first double, need chambering advice [Re: anchoryanker]
      #22443 - 20/12/04 02:24 PM

All the ideas sounded here are good ones,based on individual opinion, and experience! Opinions are like a basket of rubber balls, when poured out they all bounce in different dirrections. Any discussion on the proper firearm for any purpose, is the same! In most case no one can agree which ball bounces in the best dirrection.

Here, then is another opinion, and that is all it is, but it is the only one I have!

For a first double rifle I would never buy a 577NE, or a 500NE! Not that they are bad, they are just not versatile enough for a learner new to double rifles! The 470 NE has some things in it's favor, but I don't think it is the answer, either! My vote goes along with that of Rusty, and the PH model chambered for 450/400NE 3". It can be had in a 9.5, to 10.5 lb rifle, that you can carry all day in Africa's, sometimes, oppressive heat, and still handle at the end of the spoor, like a part of your body, instead of a railroad cross tie! The 450/400NE 3" will handle anything you need to stop, and is very usefull in the deer/bear fields of North America, as well. The fact that you shoot the rifle often will pay off when things get tight, and muscle memory is all you have to do your job quickly. Since handloading is a necessity for most of us, no matter the caliber, simply because #1 the ammo is so expencive, and #2 the loads need to be tailered to the rifle, for best results.

One can always go to the big boys later, but I don't think anyone who has owned, and hunted with a nice 450/400NE 3", or 3 1/4" will ever be as happy with a 577NE as they are with a 450/400. As far as I know Butch is the only maker that will chamber your double for the 450/400NE 3". IMO, the 450/400NE 3" is "THE" all around double rifle, and gives up nothing to any of them!



--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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bonanza
.400 member


Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: buying first double, need chambering advice [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #22459 - 21/12/04 01:02 AM

How about the new 500/416?

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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bonanza
.400 member


Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: buying first double, need chambering advice [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #22460 - 21/12/04 01:07 AM

The 470 is more versatile today with the use of ruger 480 bullets both jacketed and hard cast. You can find them in weights from 300-425 grains. Save the 500 grainer for DG. One must also consider the availibility of brass.

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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Safarischorsch
.275 member


Reged: 28/02/04
Posts: 98
Re: buying first double, need chambering advice [Re: bonanza]
      #22469 - 21/12/04 06:39 AM

Yes! I would go for the 500/416 too!

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butchloc
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Reged: 18/12/04
Posts: 230
Loc: faribault mn
Re: buying first double, need chambering advice [Re: anchoryanker]
      #22470 - 21/12/04 06:44 AM

the advise about ammo is very real. a bit ago the airlines managed to loose (delta - no suprise) my bag which had most of my gear and all the ammo in it. I had both 470 and 375 dakota along. Well in joberg I found one box of 470's and of course no 375 dakota. Went hunting with one box of 470's an came back with a couple left over. It does happen.

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cowboy
.275 member


Reged: 20/03/04
Posts: 60
Loc: Northern Wyoming, USA
Re: buying first double, need chambering advice [Re: butchloc]
      #22479 - 21/12/04 01:14 PM

If you are only considering .470 to .577 then I would easily choose the 470 for the reasons mentioned (plenty of power, ammo availability, bullet weight options,...).

However, I shoot a 450/400 NE & have not found it wanting in any way. It's miserable to carry all day in the heat but can only imagine what another 2 - 3 pounds would do! Don't overlook this classic cartridge.

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unspellable
.300 member


Reged: 06/03/04
Posts: 187
Loc: Iowa
Re: buying first double, need chambering advice [Re: anchoryanker]
      #22487 - 22/12/04 12:15 AM

I am partial to the idea of a 450 3-1/4. It takes 458 bullets so there are plenty to choose from.

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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 40695
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: buying first double, need chambering advice [Re: unspellable]
      #22492 - 22/12/04 03:26 AM

My vote for the .500/.416 as well. .416 projectiles are easier to get, and more choice than the .411 or .408's (.400).

Or a .470 if you prefer.





--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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ATHiker07
.275 member


Reged: 10/12/04
Posts: 51
Loc: Florida
Re: buying first double, need chambering advice [Re: anchoryanker]
      #22509 - 22/12/04 11:44 AM

I too am considering a double in a couple years. I saw a new Merkle for only $5,600 (U.S.) a few weeks ago, but it was in .375 and I want a .470 or the like. It seems like a good compromise that wouldn't let me down when the stuff gets hairy...

--------------------
Take a child hunting, they are the future of our sport!

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NE450No2
.375 member


Reged: 10/01/03
Posts: 942
Re: buying first double, need chambering advice [Re: anchoryanker]
      #22521 - 22/12/04 05:12 PM

I agree with Rusty and Dugaboy, get a 450/400.
When I was shopping for my first double I wanted a 450 so I could shoot 350 gr. Hornady .458 bullets for deer and pigs as [practice before going to Africa. I test fired a 450 No2 and a 450/400 3 1/4" Nitro on the same day. I liked them so well I bought them both. I felt my wife could use the 400 when she went to Africa and it could serve as a spare to the 450 for me.
My 450 No2 is my most favorite rifle ever. However, If I had bought the 450/400 first I just might have 2 of them. My 450 No2 has 28" bbls and weighs 11 3/4 lbe. It handles like a fine shotgun but is a little heavy for an allround double suitable for North America/Africa.
My 450/400 weighs 9 1/4 lbs and also handles like a fine shotgun. While I have hunted with the 450 in TX and Africa, I have used the 450/400 in Montana, Alaska, as well as TX. It has taken deer several pigs 2 caribou and black bear.
For the sport hunter is has plenty of power and penetration for any African Game and would make an excellent brown bear rifle.
My first recomendation would be to find a British Double.
As you know Searcy will make you a 450/400 also tell him you want it to weigh not over 9 1/2 lbs with 26 inch bbls. They do kick quite a bit less than a 470.
I have a load with 300 grain Hawk bullets that is DYNO-MITE on deer and pigs. For everything else I have used 400 grain Woodleighs.
For the "modern" sport hunter I consider the 450/400 the best choice for your first double. Also as your "last" double for the same reasons, they weigh less and kick less.
You will never regret buying a 450/400.

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bonanza
.400 member


Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: buying first double, need chambering advice [Re: NE450No2]
      #22536 - 23/12/04 01:01 AM

Champlins has an awsome webley 450/400 that I wanted. The best felling gun I have ever sholdered, bar none! But it was 16K and all I could muster was 12. It is still for sale.

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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atkinson6
.375 member


Reged: 26/01/04
Posts: 678
Loc: Idaho
Re: buying first double, need chambering advice [Re: bonanza]
      #22637 - 25/12/04 09:48 AM

Most really big bore shooters don't actually hunt with them...but if your going to hunt Africa then weight of the rifle is very important...10.5 lbs. is about max in my opine and that get plenty heavy by the end of the day in hot rough country....

I would opt for a 9.5 lb. 450-400-3", a 10 lb. 500-416 or a 10.5 to 11 lb. 470 max.....

I have shot and owned a number of doubles, but for hunting I like my searcy .470 better than anything so far..It is superbly accurate at half inch one hole groups most of the time at 50 yds. from a rest and it will shoot hot loads and lighter loads to the same POI, solids and softs to the same POI, it will shoot monolithics and I can load it with a 500 gr. bullet of any kind and it will get me 2245 FPS or with a lighter load 2020 FPS at same POI..If it gets lost then I collect the money and have Butch make another, it cost about $9500. It is a hunting rifle pure and simple and it works.

If I wanted an investment then I would buy a high dollar English double rifle at about $50,000 give or take a little., thats better than the stock market..

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