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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Paradox and Bore Guns
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TomN
.300 member


Reged: 07/03/10
Posts: 149
Loc: washington
Re: 10 gague ball gun [Re: TomN]
      #224573 - 01/02/13 07:22 AM

Just returned from the range and it was a waste of time the slugs shot high low left and right but never to any kind of group. the round balls that I used to replace shot in shot shells were better then the slugs. Well I will be trying the .760 balls next and some more of the .690 balls as they wrer the best shooting so far just need to be consistent in loading them. I will also be trying to use a roll crimp with the balls now that I have a roll crimper. I think that I will also try to use a cloth patch on some of the .760s as they are only .015 smaller then the bore. Well till next time . Tom N

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27000
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 10 gague ball gun [Re: TomN]
      #224583 - 01/02/13 10:52 AM

Usually the closer they fit the bore, the better, Tom.
We tightly patch balls in our smoothbore guns for shooting the black powder trail.

It doesn't happen often, but there are times when one of the better shooters who is using a 28 or 20 bore smoothbore with patched round balls, will outshoot a rifle over the entire course of 50 targets.

The ranges vary from a card split at about 14 yards and small plates as close as 25 or 30 yards to larger ones to 110yards. One of the most challenging is a snowshoe hare hanging on a chain at 100yards - it's a difficult rifle target, yet I've seen all 4 guys in a smoothbore group, hit it one after the other.

You might try a patched ball inside a shotcup, if it will fit inside a plastic hull and still chamber. different thicknesses of cloth will vary the outside diameter considerably.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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TomN
.300 member


Reged: 07/03/10
Posts: 149
Loc: washington
Re: 10 gague ball gun [Re: DarylS]
      #224586 - 01/02/13 12:39 PM

Thanks Daryl I was thinking of just putting a patch on one of the .760 balls and push it through the barrell and see how tight it was if it will go through I will try to get it into a shell without a shot cup and see what it will do I am hopeing that it will take the place of the shot cup as I haven't found munch in the 10 bore that has a concave cup to keep the ball centered. I think that that is why the .690 balls were the best ones so far as they would just fit into the shot cup and with the fingers of the cup cut at the midline or just above I could crimp it so it was tight and didn't move arown in the shell. I will be trying them with a roll crimp and hopeing I can get to the range tommrow but probly can't get their till Monday as I try to stay away on the weekends well have a good evening all.

Tom N

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MikeRowe
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Reged: 23/11/11
Posts: 478
Loc: Arkansas, USA
Re: 10 gague ball gun [Re: TomN]
      #224588 - 01/02/13 02:13 PM

When I was in my teens I was possum trapping in the bush in New Zealand. I got the bright idea that a cheap single barrel 12 gauge with an 18" barrel would be just right to carry slung over my back to nab the odd deer or pig that one runs across every now and then. It was cheap enough to carry in all kinds of weather (it was usually raining) and light at 5 1/2 lbs.

I loaded ammo using Dad's shotshell reloader and just pouring out the shot and replacing it with a ball that was a good fit in the barrel inside the shot wad. It star crimped sort of OK. I have no idea what the load was. Amazingly, it shot fist sized groups at 50 yards and I can tell you the ball would rake a pig from one end to the other.

It was quite a handful though...

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TomN
.300 member


Reged: 07/03/10
Posts: 149
Loc: washington
Re: 10 gague ball gun [Re: MikeRowe]
      #224607 - 02/02/13 03:26 AM

Mike I have done that my self but I pulled out the shot cup to and replaced it with one that I had cut off the fingers of the shot cup they shot but not well. I reloade with L.E.E hanc tools it works but to get a good fold crimp I have to use a large C clamp and look at the fold two or three times as I am putting it in or it will push the folds inside the shell. I got a roll crimper so the next ones I will try will be roll crimped.
Tom N

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drbd
.224 member


Reged: 29/11/11
Posts: 43
Loc: belgium
Re: 10 gague ball gun [Re: TomN]
      #230061 - 14/05/13 06:00 AM

Dear all,

Pardon my ingnorance but how do you patch these balls with paper or cloth. Any previous posts/books/articles touching this topic? I would like to shoot this in a 12ga greener martini shotgun.
Benny

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27000
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 10 gague ball gun [Re: drbd]
      #230090 - 15/05/13 01:34 AM



The undersized, but cloth patched balls were more accurate than the larger balls that engraved in the rifling.(16 bore 2 5/8" brass from Buffalo Arms)

30 years ago, I shot round balls from a 12 bore double, using the base cup gas check cut from used WAA12 (white) trap wads. The gas check was was placed under the ball, cup-up to hold the ball in the centre of the bore for it's trip down the tube. They shot very well for me. Friends of mine wanted to carry these loads with them while duck hunting, just in case a moose happened by- this happened often.

Because they were using full choked duck guns, I suggested cloth patching the ball with cloth thick enough that they could 'just' push it through the choke, and load that in a shotshell, using the highest speed 1 1/8ounce load they could find in their shotgun loading manuals. They did this and reported excellent results on moose to 50yards with impressive penetration, from their pump action duck guns.

If using black powder, a decent 12 bore load would be 5 drams + the requisite wads to get the column height correct for either roll or folded crimp. Lyman shotshell loading books have data.

Get the wad column right, then lay the cloth patch over the ctg. mouth and press in the ball. I use denim as it is very tough and it's available in many different thicknesses, from 6 ounce to 12 ounce, about .010" to .030".

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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TomN
.300 member


Reged: 07/03/10
Posts: 149
Loc: washington
Re: 10 gague ball gun [Re: DarylS]
      #230140 - 16/05/13 03:44 PM

I'm still trying to get the 10 bore to shoot balls without much luck still hitting in a 9x9 inch box most of the time. the best load that I have used is a .690 ball in a shot cup that I cut down so that it is just to the midline of the ball the ball fits sung in the cup and the cup is for the 10 gauge so the ball is centered in the bore. most of the time if I shoot 6 rounds I will get 3 that are in a 3 to 4 inch box the other 3 will open it up to 8 to 9 inch box. this is all with a diper that came with the L.E.E hand tools I think that I will have to start using my powder scale. I think part of what is happing is the diff. you get with diping powder it may be why I get the flyers for about half of the load that I use. I tryed cutting the shot cups down for the .760 balls that I have but you have to make them shorter and its hard to get them all the same. I think that I will work some more with them maby using a patch and a folded crimp. I have been useing a roll crimp of late as its easer to make and faster like I said I have to use a c clamp to do the fold crime to get them to stay in and look good but if I use a patch I think that I would have to use a fold crimp. Well have a good day all let you know how things work out.

Tom N

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27000
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 10 gague ball gun [Re: TomN]
      #230160 - 17/05/13 02:14 AM

Keep experimenting, Tom. The folded crimp will work more consistently with patches, for sure. The rolled lip could possibly pull off the patch as it goes by.
Powder charges need to be consistent.
What powder and load are you using?

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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TomN
.300 member


Reged: 07/03/10
Posts: 149
Loc: washington
Re: 10 gague ball gun [Re: DarylS]
      #230165 - 17/05/13 04:22 AM

Daryl I am using 34.5 grains of 7625 this with a diper that came with the LEE tools I will use the scale for a more consistent load and see if that helps the flyers some. The load that I am using is for a 2 oz. load of shot from the loading card that came with the tools so a round ball is just over half the whight so should be able to go up some in powder I would think. will just have to keep at it and see what happens. I also got a B.P.I slug loading book but It,s not of much help as their are no slugs for the 10 gauge you have to wrap a 12 gauge with two teflon wraps to get it to 10 gauge and then load it. some can get to about 1300 fps or just a little more so I think that I will be better of with just round balls. thanks.
Tom N.

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