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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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gungadoug
.333 member


Reged: 13/08/12
Posts: 285
Loc: NM
action strength
      #221154 - 08/12/12 10:21 AM

I have a question needing advise by the group- regarding the strength of various double rifle actions, how and why would the following be rated- Jones, vs. Lefaucheux, however it's spelled? I THINK the Jones is good, and I'm not sure I've ever seen one off face, and I've read the LeF is not so strong, but seems to be virtually the same, just different lever operation. Or am I misguided?
Thanks, Doug

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27331
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Re: action strength [Re: gungadoug]
      #221159 - 08/12/12 12:21 PM

The Lefaucheux is an action dating back to 1850 and is little changed at 1900. I have one, in a 16 bore Husky double shotgun/rifle. Jones Underlever - no contest winner.ihmo

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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CowboyCS
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Re: action strength [Re: DarylS]
      #221161 - 08/12/12 12:46 PM

The original LeFaucheux patent was a single locking lug that when rotated 90 degrees allowed the barrel(s) to move forward and down. In comparison to the Jones Underlever that has two camming surfaces that pull straight down and when properly fitted have not just the hinge pin but also the radius shoulders and the camming surfaces acting as bearing area. The Jones is the strongest of the break action designs, it just happens to be slower than later designs to open/close.

HTH

Colin

--------------------
The Bill of Rights- Void were prohibited by law
Stolzer & Son's Gunsmithing

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gungadoug
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Reged: 13/08/12
Posts: 285
Loc: NM
Re: action strength [Re: CowboyCS]
      #221222 - 09/12/12 12:00 PM

So- is the Jones as strong as, or more than, the 3 bite toplever? Do we look for off face etc in the same way?
Doug

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CptCurlAdministrator
.450 member


Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5307
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: action strength [Re: gungadoug]
      #221250 - 09/12/12 11:36 PM

Kirk Merrington says the 3 bite snap action Jones by Purdey is the strongest made. Whether that is literally true I cannot say.







It certainly is stout and graceful all at the same time.

Purdey .303 Double


Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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alexbeer
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Reged: 10/04/08
Posts: 389
Loc: Tasmania, Australia
Re: action strength [Re: CptCurl]
      #221267 - 10/12/12 06:59 AM

Curl,

How cruel, showing us mere mortals pictures like that .

But that is one seriously good looking rifle,
And one very strong action too.

Best
ALEX

--------------------

Details matter!

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27331
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: action strength [Re: alexbeer]
      #221270 - 10/12/12 07:52 AM

Oh yeah- he's nasty- BUT - he's going to bring a whole bunch of this 'candy' with him when he comes to visit next.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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TH44
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Reged: 21/02/09
Posts: 737
Loc: West UK
Re: action strength [Re: DarylS]
      #221286 - 10/12/12 11:15 AM

Plus 1 with Alex and Daryl

I must visit the US again someday

TH44

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brosteve
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Reged: 23/11/11
Posts: 39
Loc: TX USA
Re: action strength [Re: TH44]
      #226099 - 28/02/13 02:34 PM

That is one super blacked barrel--any trade secrets to getting it so dark?

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hoosier
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Reged: 11/07/11
Posts: 32
Loc: Indiana,USA
Re: action strength [Re: brosteve]
      #226588 - 08/03/13 06:50 AM

Quote:

That is one super blacked barrel--any trade secrets to getting it so dark?




I use Belgian Blue some and if I apply it enough times it gets black on most steels.It is a hot water blueing process rather than hot salts. When it won't darken any more, boil it in water for 30 to 45 minutes.It will be pretty dark in most cases.

Edited by hoosier (08/03/13 07:03 AM)

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doubleriflejack
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Reged: 11/11/07
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Loc: Oregon, U.S.A.
Re: action strength [Re: gungadoug]
      #226606 - 08/03/13 10:38 AM

" I've read the LeF is not so strong, but seems to be virtually the same, just different lever operation. Or am I misguided?"
_________________
You are misguided to some degree, because the Lef and the Jones underlever are NOT virtually the same.

The main profound difference between these two bolting systems is that the Lef. employes only a single bite or grip on lump, for weaker bolting, while the Jones employs a double screw grip bite, for considerable strength in bolting. The Jones pulls the lump/barrels down strongly, while allowing no, or very little, metal needing to be removed from the action, beneath the standing breech, the weakest area of any action, an area subjected to the greatest stress upon firing. Therefor, the Jones provides very strong bolting, while allowing for a very strong action, solid steel area beneath standing breech.

3 bite snap actions require a slight bit more metal to be removed from the aforementioned area on action, but that is in an area not subjected to much stress, high up on the rib extension area on standing breech, yet leaving enough metal to allow for a very strong action, with one additional bolt in an area most suitable for that bolt, the rib extension. That gives even more strength to the bolting of that Jones system.

Seems to me that you are discussing two different concepts, mixing them together, action strength verses bolting strength. Too, if considering action strength, the quality/strength of the steels used is paramount. The above concepts apply only if same metal is used in all actions.

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DUGABOY1
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Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA
Re: action strength [Re: doubleriflejack]
      #226708 - 10/03/13 04:36 AM

There are Jones under-levers and there are Jones under-levers! The strength in regard to keeping the rifle on face depends on how the female lugs are attached to the barrel set. If they are in chopper-lump barrels they are stronger than just about any type of lock up. If however they are the earlier rifles with dovetail attachment or simply brazed to the bottom of the barrels then other forms of lock-up are preferable as to strength. The LeF is a weak system to be sure, and most are very old and were usually on black powder shotguns!

If properly attached to the barrels, and including a doll's head with a hidden bite it is very strong, and in that case it's only draw back is it is very slow to re-load and get back into action once emptied.



--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

Edited by DUGABOY1 (10/03/13 06:15 AM)

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BigFiveJack
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Reged: 25/12/05
Posts: 256
Loc: Half hour North of Tampa Bay F...
Re: action strength [Re: CptCurl]
      #227617 - 27/03/13 12:18 PM

Quote:








It certainly is stout and graceful all at the same time.

Purdey .303 Double


Curl

Just exquisite...

--------------------
Cordially,
Jack

NRA Endowment Member
DRSS Member

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