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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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buckstix
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Reged: 07/11/12
Posts: 1243
Loc: Whitetail Country
Re: Dan'l Fraser 400-360 converted to 9.3x74R - seeking info [Re: gatsby]
      #220413 - 28/11/12 08:58 AM

Hello Gatsby,

I don't think you know this seller. He is here in the central states, and so is the rifle.

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."

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buckstix
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Reged: 07/11/12
Posts: 1243
Loc: Whitetail Country
Re: Dan'l Fraser 400-360 converted to 9.3x74R - seeking info [Re: 500Nitro]
      #220414 - 28/11/12 09:07 AM

Hello 500Nitro,

Thanks, those are the kinds of things I can use. Tell me more.

I've been making some "crib notes" and little things like this can be worth noting so I can perceive the value, and lack of them can make for a little "leverage" to get a better "deal."

I've had several people tell me "any" Dan'l Fraser is worth owning.

Is that because he made so few compared to other makers of the day? Is this a factor? Are there any books about Double Rifles that give these kind of details about Daniel Fraser Doubles?

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."

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gatsby
.375 member


Reged: 05/09/05
Posts: 862
Loc: inland valley CA USA
Re: Dan'l Fraser 400-360 converted to 9.3x74R - seeking info [Re: buckstix]
      #220415 - 28/11/12 09:19 AM

Sorry, I misread your answer to 500nitro ie the gun being out of the country. If the gun is in the States, it should be easy to get a valuation from one of several gunsmiths or an in hand personal inspection. Why no inspection period?

--------------------
"Recoil is insignificant when there is a tiger on the head of your elephant" The Maharaja of Cooch Behar



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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Dan'l Fraser 400-360 converted to 9.3x74R - seeking info [Re: gatsby]
      #220422 - 28/11/12 11:00 AM


No, dont know of any books.

Agree ANY DF D/R is worth owning.

Someone here can correct me if i am wrong BUT I think DF
made best grade BOXLOCKS but of such high quality.
A bit like Trigger plate actions and WR Droplocks are considered high grade guns even though "technically" boxlocks".

Here are a few more
- Scalloped actions in Westley Richards are generally a higher grade of gun. Hence my comment. Where a gun is scalloped, it makes it harder to put checkered panels on the side as they don't have a straight line of the action to work with - and IMHO, you don't need both !!!
- Staling safety - some low grade guns have them. I have a low grade WR boxlock that has it !!! Why - because it was built as a hunting rifle !!!

Remember, in the days these guns were made, a lot were made to order so a gunmaker made what the customer wanted - chosen by funds available or features wanted.
That is why we have a saying, in the English gun trade
everything is possible !!!

Re the gun here in Aus, I just remembered, it went
to a guy in NZ !!! (I forgot it was a while ago - sorry !!!).

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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Dan'l Fraser 400-360 converted to 9.3x74R - seeking info [Re: 500Nitro]
      #220423 - 28/11/12 11:01 AM

Here is a DF gun with 2 sets of barrels
and old and modern proof marks.

All be it Euro proof marks.


http://jamesdjulia.com/auctions/view_lot_info.asp?lot=2341-327


Also, it is a very nice gun.


Also shows you another shape of actions used by DF.

.

Edited by 500Nitro (28/11/12 11:02 AM)

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buckstix
.400 member


Reged: 07/11/12
Posts: 1243
Loc: Whitetail Country
Re: Dan'l Fraser 400-360 converted to 9.3x74R - seeking info [Re: 500Nitro]
      #220425 - 28/11/12 01:47 PM

Hello 500Nitro,

I also saw the 2-barrel set gun and copied the proof marks into my crib notes. I'll be seeing the gun on thursday late afternoon. Perhaps I can post pictures later that evening and get some preliminary info prior to doing a trade on Friday. If not, I'll be posting the details of how the transaction turned out.

Keep the value tid-bits coming, I'll keep adding to my crib notes.

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Dan'l Fraser 400-360 converted to 9.3x74R - seeking info [Re: buckstix]
      #220427 - 28/11/12 02:32 PM


Download this pdf document.

http://www.google.com.au/url?url=http://...WZY_8bRz3FM6hUg


Has most of the common proof marks on it that
you are likely to see on that gun

EXCEPT the reproof marks if UK done in the 70's !!!

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buckstix
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Reged: 07/11/12
Posts: 1243
Loc: Whitetail Country
Re: Dan'l Fraser 400-360 converted to 9.3x74R - seeking info [Re: 500Nitro]
      #220443 - 28/11/12 06:31 PM

Thank you, I have it in my crib notes.

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."

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buckstix
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Reged: 07/11/12
Posts: 1243
Loc: Whitetail Country
Re: Dan'l Fraser 400-360 converted to 9.3x74R - seeking info [Re: 500Nitro]
      #220600 - 30/11/12 05:21 AM

CHECK YOUR PRIVATE MESSAGES

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."

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buckstix
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Reged: 07/11/12
Posts: 1243
Loc: Whitetail Country
Re: Dan'l Fraser 400-360 converted to 9.3x74R - seeking info [Re: buckstix]
      #220767 - 02/12/12 01:02 PM

Hello All,

I want to thank all of you that helped educate me with the Dan'l Fraser Double rifle. I finalized the deal and am now the proud owner of the following Daniel Fraser rifle. I wrote the description based on how the auction houses do it, and have listed pictures of my newly acquired rifle. I think this covers all the features. If I missed anything, please let me know, and be sure to tell me if you think I did good. This is my very first Double rifle.





















--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."

Edited by CptCurl (08/12/12 11:21 PM)

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casper50
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Reged: 18/10/07
Posts: 1446
Loc: Alaska
Re: Dan'l Fraser 400-360 converted to 9.3x74R - seeking info [Re: buckstix]
      #220791 - 03/12/12 12:38 AM

I've never seen a set of DR barrels with the rib set back that way. It might grow on me. Other than that a very nice rifle. Well done/\.

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buckstix
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Reged: 07/11/12
Posts: 1243
Loc: Whitetail Country
Re: Dan'l Fraser 400-360 converted to 9.3x74R - seeking info [Re: casper50]
      #220808 - 03/12/12 09:37 AM

Hello Casper50,

Thank you for your comment.

I'm not entirely sure of this, but "every" Nitro Express Daniel Fraser Double rifle that I've seen pictured on the internet has the rib set-back from the muzzle like mine.

see this link .... 4th picture.

The caption reads, "Crowns on a Dan'l Fraser double rifle with rebated rib---theoretically to avoid bullet deflection from asymmetrical gas dispersion as the bullet leaves the muzzle."

http://www.hallowellco.com/crown.htm

If I'm wrong, please enlighten me.

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."

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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Dan'l Fraser 400-360 converted to 9.3x74R - seeking info [Re: buckstix]
      #220809 - 03/12/12 10:29 AM


Holland do it as well on some guns.

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buckstix
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Reged: 07/11/12
Posts: 1243
Loc: Whitetail Country
Re: Dan'l Fraser 400-360 converted to 9.3x74R - seeking info [Re: 500Nitro]
      #220879 - 04/12/12 11:19 AM

Hello, and thanks to all.

For those interested, I've now moved on to trying to get the rifle to shoot, and I have shown some pictures of the unique modified chambers of this rifle.

see the following for a continuation of this saga.

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=220829&an=0&page=0#Post220829

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."

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buckstix
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Reged: 07/11/12
Posts: 1243
Loc: Whitetail Country
Re: Dan'l Fraser 400-360 converted to 9.3x74R - seeking info [Re: buckstix]
      #221288 - 10/12/12 11:56 AM

I discoved the floorplate screw was loose, but before tightening it, I looked inside and found that the parts inside this box-lock action are 24K Gold Plated. The ejector parts inside the forearm are also 24K Gold plated. I wonder if this makes it a "Best Quality".



--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."

Edited by CptCurl (10/12/12 10:52 PM)

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Huvius
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Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3556
Loc: Colorado
Re: Dan'l Fraser 400-360 converted to 9.3x74R - seeking info [Re: buckstix]
      #221289 - 10/12/12 12:32 PM

Quote:

...I wonder if this makes it a "Best Quality".



I know what you mean.
IMO, by most standards, Fraser made only "Best Quality". In design and execution they are tops in my book.
Some Frasers got the gold treatment and others did not. Same goes for Fraser single shots.
Not sure if that was something the purchaser could specify or just that some got it and others didn't.
I would like to see some period Fraser literature to see if the gold plating is mentioned anywhere.
Anybody here know for sure?

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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bwanabobftw
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Reged: 29/12/04
Posts: 676
Loc: Texas
Re: Dan'l Fraser 400-360 converted to 9.3x74R - seeking info [Re: Huvius]
      #223224 - 09/01/13 01:00 PM

I'd bet money that Paul Roberts of Rigby's in London "recut" the chambers on this rifle. He converted lots of "360's" to 9.3 X74R back in the 70's and 80's , when you couldn't get brass for the 360's.
Robert

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buckstix
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Reged: 07/11/12
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Loc: Whitetail Country
Re: Dan'l Fraser 400-360 converted to 9.3x74R - seeking info [Re: bwanabobftw]
      #223225 - 09/01/13 01:27 PM

Hello bwanabobftw,

Would you have any idea how I might contact Paul Roberts to find out?

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."

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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Dan'l Fraser 400-360 converted to 9.3x74R - seeking info [Re: buckstix]
      #223226 - 09/01/13 01:34 PM


Type Paul Roberts, W J Jeffrey into Google
and he should come up.

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bwanabobftw
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Reged: 29/12/04
Posts: 676
Loc: Texas
Re: Dan'l Fraser 400-360 converted to 9.3x74R - seeking info [Re: 500Nitro]
      #223267 - 10/01/13 05:00 AM

Yes , that would be the best way. He has the rights to Jeffery and still does business in London.
Good Luck ,
Robert

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buckstix
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Reged: 07/11/12
Posts: 1243
Loc: Whitetail Country
Re: Dan'l Fraser 400-360 converted to 9.3x74R - seeking info [Re: bwanabobftw]
      #223297 - 10/01/13 03:51 PM

Hello bwanabobftw and 500Nitro,

I searched but could not locate an email address. If you know of one, please let me know. thanks.

--------------------
"You never pay too much for something, you only buy it too early."

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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Dan'l Fraser 400-360 converted to 9.3x74R - seeking info [Re: buckstix]
      #223298 - 10/01/13 04:07 PM


I think you might find he's old school
- emails are a PITA to a business like his.

Try picking up the phone or sending a fax.

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4seventy
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Reged: 07/05/03
Posts: 2210
Loc: Queensland Australia
Re: Dan'l Fraser 400-360 converted to 9.3x74R - seeking info [Re: buckstix]
      #223311 - 10/01/13 07:39 PM

buckstix,

Here you go.
Paul Roberts (J Roberts & Son)

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HeymSR20
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Reged: 23/11/11
Posts: 245
Loc: Scotland
Re: Dan'l Fraser 400-360 converted to 9.3x74R - seeking info [Re: 4seventy]
      #223315 - 10/01/13 08:22 PM

I have found Roberts very helpful - I have an old WJ Jeffery double 410 and they gave me the full history.

And picking up on your comments re reloaded slightly hard to close / leaver not snapping to the middle On the other discussion i had the same on 7x65r. New RWS cartridges, easily closed and lever shaped across, on reloading some were a bit sticky. I found that the case length had increased, not by much, and not out of spec but just enough interfere with the end of the chamber. At the next reload I made very sure that the case holder had firm contact with the bottom of the die, and then trimmed them to length. Next batch no issues at all, and indeed were shooting even better.

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