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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mauser Discussion Forum

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27005
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: 8x51 ??? No, really a 8x54mm Krag [Re: Caprivi]
#222287 - 24/12/12 10:18 AM

Pleasure - the important thing is to have fun.

The 8x54 should be within 1 gr. capacity as the 8x57. This is why the 6.5x55 was developed. The Swedes wanted a 6.5mm round that would easily fit in their shorter action, but that had the same capacity as the 7x57. Thus, they made the base larger to gain back the capacity lost in shortening the 7mm's length.

Donnelly's book shows capacities for the 6.5x57 Mauser round as being a 53gr. while the 6.5x55 is listed as having a capacity of 55.04gr. The 7x57Mauser is listed as a 55.5gr. case according to that book & the 8x57 is listed as 62.68gr. This is due to the diameter of the neck, holding another 7gr. of water compared to the .264" neck.
It is possible the 8mm on the 6.5x55 case will have a 2gr. advantage over the 8x57, given they will both have the same neck. See the difference between the 6.5x55 and 6.5x57.

So - VERY close and loads for the 8x57 should be useable for a guide. I'd certainly start at or near the bottom suggested as starting loads - in the Euro books - or Hodgdon's Annual Manual, or the old Pacific Manual. These have quite similar load parameters, not being downloaded as badly as US manufacturers like RP and WW.

Hodgdon's data shows 150gr. at mid to high 2,900fps, 175gr. at 2,750's& one load over 2,800fps. 200gr. Speer, a MOST excellent moose bullet is punching out at low to mid 2,500fps and 220gr. Hornady at 2,400fps.

These are all .30/06 ranged ballstics, which is normal for a well loaded 8x57 - in Europe.

All bullet weights do well to best using Varget and H4895. BLC2 also garners top awards, as do 4320 and 4064. both IMR powders.

That's going to be fun working with. Not that many around that I'm seen - but then, we're quite isolated here. I wouldn't mind one myself, not that we've looked into it.

I even saved some 6.5x55 stripper clips - imagine that.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Caprivi
.375 member

Reged: 30/09/08
Posts: 811
Loc: America's Serengeti, Buffalo W...

Re: 8x51 ??? No, really a 8x54mm Krag [Re: DarylS]
#222293 - 24/12/12 01:16 PM

Daryl,

Agreed on all the info. The 55mm case will hold the same as a 57mm. My current (stainless Tikka) 6.5x55 uses within 2% of H1000 with a 140 as does my 6.5x284.

In years gone by I had a 96 & a 95 mausers in 6.5x55 and 7x57 respectively, They both used the same load 47grs IMR4831 with 160's.

The fatter 55mm case cool. A friend has a SAKO on a pattern 98 style action chambered in 8x63mm. Common thought this would be a .30'06 case but it is the fatter 55mm style case. He lucked into a handful of cases that take standard primers. It outruns my old 300H&H.

The 8mm loads sound right on. I am thinking the top end stuff will have way more recoil than I am thinking I want to put with in this rifle. Anyway I have a scoped 8x57 to handle all of those variety of loads. It will indeed run with a .30'06. I agree with you on the 200gr Speer. Great bullet and maybe the cheapest jacket 8mm bullet available. I see Hornady has a 195 as well. With this rifle turning out to be a .323" it eases the pursuit of jacketed bullets. I noticed there is a custom LEE FN 215 and 225gr molds available as well.

Best I can come up with is that the original load was a 196 at 2300ish.

Anyway, loadwise, I like the original ballistics. The rear sight is a replacement, front sight seems genuine. Been thinking that I will find a fac. dup. load and then file the sight. Thinking a 100 standing and a 300 folding....thinking it will shoot flat enough for that. If I ever stumble over some original ammo I will be close with the sighting to use them.

Just really enjoying the feel of this old, long-ish, skinny, trim, round rifle. I am already re-learning the virtue of a light, iron sighted, long barreled, long-ish L.O.P. small around bolt rifle of plenty of power. It is no pristine collector piece, actually the near oppisite. It is a nice honest rifle I can learn from. I have missd having a rifle around to rub some oil on the wood and some Rangoon on the blue

--------------------
To live life as it is handed to me from God

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Igorrock
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Reged: 01/03/07
Posts: 1649
Loc: Finland

Re: 8x51 ??? No, really a 8x54mm Krag [Re: Caprivi]
#222298 - 24/12/12 04:35 PM

Quote:

A friend has a SAKO on a pattern 98 style action chambered in 8x63mm. Common thought this would be a .30'06 case but it is the fatter 55mm style case.

Could it be 8X63mm Swedish ?
http://www.8x63swedish.pridham.ca/history.html

By the way, I just bought reamer for 7x64 Brenneke to built a rifle to my SAKO m98 action.

--------------------
http://promaakari.wordpress.com/

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Caprivi
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Reged: 30/09/08
Posts: 811
Loc: America's Serengeti, Buffalo W...

Re: 8x51 ??? No, really a 8x54mm Krag [Re: Igorrock]
#222318 - 25/12/12 02:24 AM

Igorrock, that is indeed the cartridge. Good find the article. I'll bet those light K98K's benefitted from the addition of the muzzlebrake.

I have lost touch with that rifle. I should try to look him up and inquiry (try to aquire) that rifle. I remember it being very plain wood (Arctic Beech ???) on a FN Sporter looking action (no thumb cut, swept handle) a long-ish light barrel with a single standing rear and a bead on ramp front. I don't think it was D&T.

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27005
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: 8x51 ??? No, really a 8x54mm Krag [Re: Caprivi]
#222319 - 25/12/12 03:20 AM

Now I'm confused- is it 8x63 or 8x54?

If actually 8x54, and a fellow has an improved '08 case reamer with a .454" shoulder, the pilot could be bushed or changed to run in the .313" to .315" bore and open up the shoulder to .454". Any '08 IMP reamer will work as you don't need the neck cut, it's already there. Improving the chamber would increase the case capacity to about 60 or 61gr., same as the .284 case provides - just a thought for a unique chambering that no one else is likely to have at this time - ie: 8x54 Improved Krag. Mention that and everyone will be thinking of the .30/40 Krag case - no, no,no, it's actually ------- lots of fun.

If you went this way, a .308 die set would work, if opened up just a bit in the base as well as the neck.
Actually, the seater might have the correct neck size already - just a thought for a newish wildcat.

The ballistics would be quite similar to the .325 WSM, ie: 175gr. at 3,000fps. The shoulder would be increased from .435" to .454" - a full .020", along with the reduction in taper - a great little round.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Caprivi
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Reged: 30/09/08
Posts: 811
Loc: America's Serengeti, Buffalo W...

Re: 8x51 ??? No, really a 8x54mm Krag [Re: DarylS]
#222330 - 25/12/12 06:53 AM

Quote:

Now I'm confused- is it 8x63 or 8x54?

Sorry Daryl, it is indeed a 8x54mm Krag Jorgensen. I think so anyway, won't see the bolt for a week yet, thanks to a very dumb seller and a worse Postal Service, to test fire some ammo I made up.

I got off on a tangent with Igorrock on the 8x63swede that uses the fatter .478" swede case head size, as opposed to the common .469"

I will test fire it then decide on its chamber. If all is cool, it will run as a 8x54mm KJ. If not "all is well" it will become a action donor.

Anyone have/seen any proper 8x54mm Krag brass available ???

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27005
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: 8x51 ??? No, really a 8x54mm Krag [Re: Caprivi]
#222332 - 25/12/12 08:09 AM

Quote:

If not "all is well" it will become a action donor.

It's always a 'way out'.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Igorrock
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Reged: 01/03/07
Posts: 1649
Loc: Finland

Re: 8x51 ??? No, really a 8x54mm Krag [Re: DarylS]
#222351 - 26/12/12 12:27 AM

Quote:

thanks to a very dumb seller and a worse Postal Service,

In Europe is very common that you could send rifle/shotgun with cargo service if dismounted to several packages only which usually means that bolt is one packege and the rest of rifle an another.

--------------------
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Caprivi
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Reged: 30/09/08
Posts: 811
Loc: America's Serengeti, Buffalo W...

Re: 8x51 ??? No, really a 8x54mm Krag [Re: Igorrock]
#222357 - 26/12/12 04:04 AM

Quote:

Quote:

thanks to a very dumb seller and a worse Postal Service,

In Europe is very common that you could send rifle/shotgun with cargo service if dismounted to several packages only which usually means that bolt is one packege and the rest of rifle an another.

So very true. I need to keep prespective. Here in the Colonies we are very use to timely delivery, without alot of interference. I would assume those days are drawing to a end. This can be a teachable moment for me, in tolerance. I enjoy this rifle already, I would imagine that a bolt and some noise from the muzzle will enhance than joy.

Merry Christmas

--------------------
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Caprivi
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Reged: 30/09/08
Posts: 811
Loc: America's Serengeti, Buffalo W...

Re: 8x51 ??? No, really a 8x54mm Krag [Re: Caprivi]
#222571 - 30/12/12 02:31 PM

Wonder among wonders the Bolt arrived today. 1 month a 2 days after purchase. They sent it to Buffalo, NEW YORK, instead of Buffalo, Wyoming.

Anyway, I cobbled up 3 cases from new RP 6.5x55 cases, 14grs Unique, 170gr RN, They went Bang and the cases fell out fairly nice and far less wringled then they went in the chamber. After some cleaning and measuring, the Chamber is indeed cut for a 8x54mm Krag.

I am thinking it will get around the mid-40's of ReLoder15 with a 200gr Speer.

I have a 6.5x55 LEE die and a taperd 8mm expander ball/rod coming. The die neck will get reamed to .345" and the 8mm expander installed.........should make usable cases in one pass.....:):):)

Hey Daryl, you mentioned annealing dies, any insight you can give on your procedure would be welcome. Also thanks for the pictures of your dies in the 9x57 thread.......

--------------------
To live life as it is handed to me from God

Edited by Caprivi (30/12/12 02:52 PM)

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Caprivi
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Reged: 30/09/08
Posts: 811
Loc: America's Serengeti, Buffalo W...

Re: 8x51 ??? No, really a 8x54mm Krag [Re: Caprivi]
#229823 - 08/05/13 02:20 PM

UPDATE

forgot about this post and have been tinkering away.
This rifle that started this post has/had a fairly large pit show up in the chamber after a vigorous cleaning. Nothing really to be done with it. It was traded as a donor.

The UPDATE. A Vapen Depoten/Falun M-30D has taken its place. This too is a pattern 96 action with the trimmed stock and rebored barrel. It is as well a 8x54KJ. No side panels like the earlier M3-D and a better excuted splice of the grip knob. Just a nice rough service rifle in a caliber to handle Alg.

I have managed to drop my camera so some pictures will be a bit of a wait.

I have fireformed 50 Lapua 6.5x55mm cases I had for just such a project. Headspace is spot on and neck/chamber/bore specs are all very agreeable......something I can't say about a certain M46 in 9.3x57mm. Now to try some 200gr Speers and ReLoder15

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Caprivi
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Reged: 30/09/08
Posts: 811
Loc: America's Serengeti, Buffalo W...

Re: 8x51 ??? No, really a 8x54mm Krag [Re: Caprivi]
#230450 - 24/05/13 01:45 PM

It shoots on the sights to 200yds with 42grsRL15 and 200gr Noslers.

Infidelity has set in and my interest has waned. It will go on down the road.

--------------------
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