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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Building Double Rifles & Gunsmithing

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Matabele
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Difference in 28 gauge vs 20 gauge action size?
      #219996 - 22/11/12 05:22 PM

Hi all,

I also posted this in the shotgun forum but then thought it might be better received here. My apologies for double posting mods, feel free to delete the one in the shotgun forum if need be.

Im just curious as to the differences in size between the correctly scaled actions for these two gauges. Can anyone who owns these two gauges be kind enough to post some pictures of them side by side so I can see the relative differences. A shot looking toward the standing breech with both gauges next two each other would be great!

Any input appreciated, thanks.


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Setterguy
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Re: Difference in 28 gauge vs 20 gauge action size? [Re: Matabele]
      #220060 - 23/11/12 12:38 PM

I can tell you about one shotgun, the Winchester Mod. 21. For this shotgun there is no difference in the receiver between a 20 ga and a 28 ga. The only difference is the thickness of the barrel walls. This makes a 28 ga heavier than a 20. I really don't know the differences for other makes.------------Bill

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Matabele
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Re: Difference in 28 gauge vs 20 gauge action size? [Re: Setterguy]
      #220069 - 23/11/12 04:21 PM

Thanks for the reply Bill. Id like to try my hand at building a double .303 and ideally want to base it on a 28 gauge frame for just the reason you've outlined... that it would work out slimmer and trimmer. An affordable donor gun in 28 gauge is a hard one to find though! Im heading off to a gun auction this weekend so Im crossing fingers there'll be one tucked away.

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lancaster
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Re: Difference in 28 gauge vs 20 gauge action size? [Re: Matabele]
      #220071 - 23/11/12 05:23 PM

iirc Merkel build doubles up to 9,3x74R on the 28 ga frame and anything above get the 20 ga frame

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians


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doubleriflejack
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Re: Difference in 28 gauge vs 20 gauge action size? [Re: Matabele]
      #220116 - 24/11/12 06:45 AM

Matabele
When considering conversion of a 28 vs. 20 gauge shotgun to .303 British, it isn't simply a matter of choosing frame size most suitable for overall rifle finished weight. One has to take into careful consideration the following: Shotgun frames tend to be less robust, smaller in general, than double rifle frames of same basic outward size, to hold up to increased stresses associated with rifle calibers. Many Italian makers of shotguns and double rifles indicate in their catalogs that they use same frame size for double rifles as they do for shotguns of a specific gauge, BUT REINFORCED IN AREAS NEEDING SUCH, TO HOLD UP TO ADDED STRESSES OF DOUBLE RIFLE CALIBERS. The word "reinforced" needs to be emphasized, due to its importance--they are reinforced in specific areas where needed. More importantly, the type steel that was used in making an action is paramount in its strength to hold up to the stresses involved, all steels are not equal in this regard. Most shotgun frames, and early double rifle frames too, were made from a mild steel, a low carbon steel, color case hardened. The color case hardening provided a very hard, but extremely thin, outer shell, and color, over the action, to resist surface scratching, surface wear from friction, etc. but provided little or no added tensile strength to that mild steel frame. This color case hardened mild steel retained a core that was left in its original soft state that was springy to a certain degree, so it would flex ever so slightly under firing recoil, but would immediately spring back to its original dimensions, as long as firing stresses were kept within range rifle was originally designed for. In more recent years, almost all double rifle frames, and some shotgun frames too, have been made from more modern high tensile strength alloy steels of vastly superior tensile strengths, compared to the earlier mild steels that were used. Even though such modern high tensile strength steels may be used by most makers, they are still reinforced, where needed, for even more insurance that they will hold up well over time, to the rifle stresses involved. All, or nearly all, modern double rifle makers today, are making their double rifle frames from a high tensile strength steel. Thus, a shotgun frame made from one of these high tensile strength alloy steels, generally is much better for conversion, rather than using one made from the more common mild steel. Two examples of shotguns that used high tensile strength alloy steels are the Browning BSS, and CZ. Conversions of CZ shotguns to double rifles, were used by one outstanding maker who posted details of his conversions on this site. In general, I would judge the 28 gauge shotgun frame to be too small for .303 conversion.


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Matabele
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Re: Difference in 28 gauge vs 20 gauge action size? [Re: doubleriflejack]
      #220185 - 25/11/12 05:45 AM

Thanks very much for that info doublerifle, appreciate it. This is a complete learning curve for me and Im picking up heaps of information all the time. I have Ellis Brown's book on order, hopefully it should be here in the next few days and will shed some more light on the matter.

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lancaster
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Re: Difference in 28 gauge vs 20 gauge action size? [Re: Matabele]
      #220209 - 25/11/12 06:14 PM

german gunmaker prefer post war suhl made 16 ga guns for double rifle conversions in the 8x57IRS -9,3x74R class
something like this
http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=4126018&PHPSESSID=1c48372950c373727e35fa1e0204049c
or this
http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=4131244&PHPSESSID=1c48372950c373727e35fa1e0204049c


--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by CptCurl (25/11/12 10:51 PM)


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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: Difference in 28 gauge vs 20 gauge action size? [Re: Matabele]
      #220218 - 25/11/12 10:57 PM

doubleriflejack,

Well said! I had been a bit concerned with the idea of using a 28 gauge shotgun action for the .303 Brit. I'm no engineer, nor am I trained in gunsmithing, but I know what you said above is true.

Yes, the Germans, Belgians, and Italians made many a double rifle up to 9.3x74R on frames of similar size to a .28 gauge shotgun. But these were rifle frames with much beefier construction and often with longer bars to accommodate the increased stresses.

If the original poster wants something like a .303 Brit on a .28 gauge frame he would do well to find one of the many pre-war German 8x57JR doubles for his purpose.

Safety must always be first.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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Matabele
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Re: Difference in 28 gauge vs 20 gauge action size? [Re: CptCurl]
      #220293 - 26/11/12 08:17 PM

Thanks for the information gents. Absolutely safety must come first, I dont want to compromise that for a slightly handier gun!!

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