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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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Stalker
.224 member


Reged: 21/09/04
Posts: 11
Loc: Norway
450 Rigby
      #21964 - 08/12/04 11:45 PM

Jeez - I'm slow.
I'm just about to make a decision, after months of tumbling my brain. Thanks to good help from friends on this forum, I decided to buy a used CZ 550 Magnum in 416 Rigby. And that gives me the opportunity, in a long run, to change the barrel to turn the 416 into a 450. And then two opportunities shows up - 450 Rigby and 450 Dakota. As far as I understand, the two are as good as one of a kind, both made from the basis of the 416 Rigby-case.
Then what is the practical difference, if any?
Does anyone of you have experience with these two calibers? I would love to peep into some tecnical drawings and ballistic data.

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Re: 450 Rigby [Re: Stalker]
      #22010 - 09/12/04 01:45 PM

This link

http://www.clymertool.com/cgi-bin/reamer.cgi?cmd=CMD_START&gunID=2&reamerID=7

will take to a drop down list of rimless calibres for Clymer reamer drawings. Both the 450 Rigby and 450 Dakota are listed.

From memory the 450 Rigby factory ballistics are 2300 with 480 grains and the 450 Dakota is 2350 with 500 grains.

In either case that is about 200 to 250 f/s less than they would do with normal full pressure reloads.

Mike

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Ndumo
.300 member


Reged: 21/12/03
Posts: 230
Loc: Namibia
Re: 450 Rigby [Re: Stalker]
      #22235 - 15/12/04 04:53 AM

Have a look at my website at www.huntingsafaris.net, there is an article that I have written for the Magnum magazine (South Africa) on the .450 Rigby. If you need more detail on ballistics, feel free to contact me.

--------------------
Karl Stumpfe
Ndumo Hunting Safaris (Pty) Ltd.
karl@huntingsafaris.net
www.huntingsafaris.net
+264 811 285 416

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Re: 450 Rigby [Re: Ndumo]
      #22253 - 15/12/04 10:11 AM

Good site and good article.

Is the S365 about like IMR 4350 burn rate

Mike

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bjlooper
.224 member


Reged: 27/03/05
Posts: 11
Loc: Mississippi, USA
Re: 450 Rigby [Re: Stalker]
      #28417 - 27/03/05 03:29 PM

This is a serious question not a ajb. What can the 450 Rigby do that the 460 weatherby can't do better. Why form brass when factory brass is avaible for the 460. Any action that is sutible for the Ribby will handle the weatherby.So why bother.

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Re: 450 Rigby [Re: bjlooper]
      #28421 - 27/03/05 09:56 PM

bjlooper

There are a couple of pluses I can think for the 450 Rigby.

If Clymer reaming drawings are correct then it has a short freebore whereas the 460 is extremely long in freebore. This would make the 450 Rigby superior for reduced loads that go below 458 Win power as ignition will be better and especially if bullets can be seated on the rifling.

I suppose if someone is doing a Mauser type rifle then the 450 Rigby seems to fit better from the point of view of just seeming "more right"

If we were talking 416 Rigby and 416 Wby then we could say 416 Rigby ammo is lower power and recoil which is also the case for the 450 Rigby but I think 450 Rigby factory ammo is a not a real viable situation at the moment. But that might change if CZ-USA have success with their 450 Rigby chambered rifle.

Lastly, the 450 Rigby is probably a more straight forward conversion of the CZ 416 Rigby than would be the case for the 460 Wby.

An aquaintance of mine in America is torn beween to having a 460 Wby on the Granite action or a 450 Rigby and for him the 460 Wby wins the practical race with no contest but the 450 Rigby seems "more right" in the Granite Magnum Mauser.

Mike

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Oldsarge
.300 member


Reged: 07/02/05
Posts: 180
Loc: SoCal Borderlands
Re: 450 Rigby [Re: bjlooper]
      #28426 - 28/03/05 02:13 AM

looper,
Well, for one thing, the Rigby will fit in the magazine better. Weatherby's belts are purely cosmetic. Since his cartridges were all blown out to a sharp angled shoulder for headspacing, there is no earthly use for the belt, except for marketing purposes. What it does do is cut your magazine capacity by a complete round. Weatherby .460's by Weatherby only hold 2 rounds in the magazine and once you've faced a really angry potroast, that is a serious deficiency indeed.

Now as to the forming question. I simply take the .416 case and run a .458 expander die through it, then fireform. It doesn't get much easier than that. If you really fall for all the hype of HV, you can load up the Rigby to whatever mind-blowing velocity you want but the game won't be able to tell the difference at 60 yards or under. And unless you are shooting monolithic solids, you'll get better bullet performance at 22-2300 fps than you will at 2500+.

--------------------
Sarge

Holland's .375: One Planet, One Rifle!

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bjlooper
.224 member


Reged: 27/03/05
Posts: 11
Loc: Mississippi, USA
Re: 450 Rigby [Re: Oldsarge]
      #28438 - 28/03/05 08:21 AM

Oldsarge
"there is no earthly use for the belt, except for marketing purposes"

I assume that this also applies to the .375 H&H which does not need a belt for head spacing. this idemostrated by the many cartriges that don't have a sharp shoulder or a belt, head space just fine.
I guess we should use a modern beltless 375 like 375 RUM

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grum
Sponsor


Reged: 22/03/05
Posts: 20
Loc: WA & NT Australia
Re: 450 Rigby [Re: bjlooper]
      #28449 - 28/03/05 04:35 PM

Hi Stalker,
The 450Rigby CZ will be a nice rifle, should feed well as the 416Rigby CZ feeds great. I once owned a 458Lott on Brno 602 and found 2220fps with 500grainers was as much recoil as I could handle with the factory (458WM) profile barrel. At 2300 and 2350fps it kicked like a mule. Weight was just over 9 1/4lb, so if you were to make a 450Rigby I would suggest make with a heavier profile barrel to get weight up to about 10 1/4lb.
Cheers Graham.

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Re: 450 Rigby [Re: Oldsarge]
      #28464 - 29/03/05 12:02 AM

Sarge

Wby now offer a slightly deeper magazine that holds 3 of any of the 378 based calibres.

Mike

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wombat
.300 member


Reged: 06/03/04
Posts: 163
Loc: Australia
Re: 450 Rigby [Re: Mike375]
      #28545 - 29/03/05 08:10 PM

Has anyone had any experience with these extended magazines-reliable?????

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Re: 450 Rigby [Re: wombat]
      #28560 - 29/03/05 11:17 PM

I have not but if see a picture of one they just look like the floor plate extending a bit and I think you will find the rest of the magazine is standard.

Mike

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BFaucett
.333 member


Reged: 13/01/04
Posts: 451
Loc: Houston, Texas
Re: 450 Rigby [Re: bjlooper]
      #28569 - 30/03/05 02:31 AM

In reply to:

Oldsarge
"there is no earthly use for the belt, except for marketing purposes"

bjlooper
I assume that this also applies to the .375 H&H which does not need a belt for head spacing. this idemostrated by the many cartriges that don't have a sharp shoulder or a belt, head space just fine.
I guess we should use a modern beltless 375 like 375 RUM



I'm not a gunsmith so I claim no expertise in this area. However, I have read that the only two cartridges that need the belt for headspacing are the original .300 H&H and .375 H&H Magnums. According to what I have read, it is due to the very shallow shoulder angle on these cases. Makes sense as Holland & Holland originally designed these cartridges. Cartridges that came later, like the 7mm Rem Mag, .300 Win Mag, etc. that were based on the H&H belted case really don't need to headspace on the belt as their shoulders have a sharp enough angle.

-Bob F.

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Oldsarge
.300 member


Reged: 07/02/05
Posts: 180
Loc: SoCal Borderlands
Re: 450 Rigby [Re: BFaucett]
      #28750 - 01/04/05 03:36 PM

Faucett's got it right. The long slope of the H&H cartridges was designed to ensure slick feeding, an absolute must in a DGR. Back when they were designed extraction was also a problem. Whether or not that was a factor in the design I can't speculate but the belt was designed for headspacing. Call it an extra thick rim with a groove near the back for the Mauser extractor to catch onto.

--------------------
Sarge

Holland's .375: One Planet, One Rifle!

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4seventy
Sponsor


Reged: 07/05/03
Posts: 2210
Loc: Queensland Australia
Re: 450 Rigby [Re: BFaucett]
      #28763 - 01/04/05 10:16 PM

In reply to:

I have read that the only two cartridges that need the belt for headspacing are the original .300 H&H and .375 H&H Magnums.



The one cartridge which certainly cannot get by without a belt is the 458 Win mag as it has no shoulder whatsoever.
Same goes for the 458 Lott.

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BFaucett
.333 member


Reged: 13/01/04
Posts: 451
Loc: Houston, Texas
Re: 450 Rigby [Re: 4seventy]
      #28779 - 02/04/05 03:27 AM

True. Poor wording on my part. I was thinking of bottleneck cases.

I should have written: "I have read that the only two bottleneck, belted cartridges that need the belt for headspacing are the original .300 H&H and .375 H&H Magnums."

-Bob F.

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Re: 450 Rigby [Re: BFaucett]
      #28781 - 02/04/05 04:40 AM

One advantage in belted cases for those of us who shoot a lot of very reduced loads...sqib loads....is that rimless cases increase their headspace with each shot. The primer blows the case forward and the pressure is not enough to reform the case.

Mike

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