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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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lapsub
.224 member


Reged: 25/11/04
Posts: 24
William Douglass
      #21699 - 05/12/04 04:05 AM

good morning, gentlemen

could i please get some input re double rifles made by william douglass & sons of london?

not the new ones, which i am told are built on italian shotgun frames, but the older ones made in-house by douglass.

any idea what an older one in .470 is worth? it is in very good condition and is their basic model, not upgraded wood nor fancy engraving. express sights only. been shot a lot but in very good shape cosmetically and functionally.

asking price for this older one is $9,500. is that about right? i hear new ones on the italian frame are only about twelve grand, but have never seen one offered. have you?

thanks

lapsub

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DUGABOY1
.400 member


Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA
Re: William Douglass [Re: lapsub]
      #21704 - 05/12/04 08:09 AM

In reply to:

not the new ones, which i am told are built on italian shotgun frames, but the older ones made in-house by douglass.




The price you quote is about right! However let me clear up something here. The new William Douglas is just as good or better than the old ones! The old so-called "IN-HOUSE" rifles were not made on their own actions either, in most cases. Most barrel blanks were made by Krupp in Germany, and most actions were either Webley, or Anson&Deeley. The factories only assembled,by final fitting, and finished the rifles. Shotguns are made on the same actions that rifles are made on, they are simply heat-treated differently.

The 470NE chambering is worth a premium, and, if tight, the rifle you are talking about, is worth the price.

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

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new_guy
Sponsor


Reged: 10/08/04
Posts: 581
Loc: Texas
Re: William Douglass [Re: lapsub]
      #21705 - 05/12/04 08:19 AM

well then, i'm confused...

I'm not familiar with the new vs. old wm douglases.?

I've been told by a few gun dealers (that should know) that there really is no historical significance to the name... They've also told me an Indian (i think) guy owns the company and they used the name b/c it sounded "english" and figured no one wanted to buy a gun from an "english" rifle from a company with an Indian-sounding name (apparently his name doesn't sound very "english.")

where is the current wm. douglas's website? who in the US imports them?

Take all of that as hear-say...

As for the gun, I further understand them to be built under that name by a variety of craftsman that "moonlight" from other firms.

As for the Italian frames, I wouldn't worry about where the frame coming from Italy.

The Italians are some of the best - if not THE best - gunmakers in the world today.

Companies like F.lli Rizzini, Famars (A&S), Piotti & Fabbri obviously rely on "italian" steel, frames and craftsmanship... (I don't care what some of the anglo-philes out there say, today's english "Best" is not as good as the italian's "Best.")

As for the price... 9500 represents about 75% of the replacement cost for a new one. I would think that it would have depreciated between 25 & 35%. So that sounds like a good "asking price."

Good luck

--------------------
www.heymUSA.com

Edited by new_guy (05/12/04 08:22 AM)

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mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: William Douglass [Re: new_guy]
      #21711 - 05/12/04 09:52 AM

In reply to:

I've been told by a few gun dealers (that should know) that there really is no historical significance to the name... They've also told me an Indian (i think) guy owns the company and they used the name b/c it sounded "english" and figured no one wanted to buy a gun from an "english" rifle from a company with an Indian-sounding name (apparently his name doesn't sound very "english.")



I think you may be refering to Symes and Wright. They were owned by and Indonesian who tried to get them off the ground with an English name. They are pretty decent rifles, for new ones, and sold new for $15,000 or so. They even made a 700 Nitro and a 4 Bore Double. I believe his interest has waned and they may no longer be in business.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

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RLI
.375 member


Reged: 01/10/03
Posts: 534
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: William Douglass [Re: lapsub]
      #21717 - 05/12/04 10:27 AM

William Douglass & Sons are not made on Italian shotgun frames my information is the recievers were made/machined in Holland, Barrels from Germany, All gunsmithing was done in England and proofed in London. They are a very well made rifle. I have spoken to WD and they only made 98 Double rifles. Thanks

Steve

--------------------
"Life is tough, but it's tougher when you're stupid." — John Wayne

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Geronimo
.275 member


Reged: 14/04/04
Posts: 83
Loc: Michigan,USA
Re: William Douglass [Re: lapsub]
      #21725 - 05/12/04 01:56 PM

I recently had the opportunity to inspect and fire a used William Douglas .470. The gun was offered to me for sale and was in excellent condition. I found the gun to be beautifully balanced with impeccable fit and finish. The gun was regulated to Federal ammo and shot 2 1/2"- 3" groups in my hands. However, I did not buy the gun because it kicked like a mule! Now, I am the owner of a .500NE, a .458 Lott, and a .416 Rigby and this gun kicked harder than any of the above guns. Upon weighing this gun, the reason for the unusually sharp recoil became apparent. The rifle only weighed a tad over 9 lbs. I feel this is a full pound to pound and a half too light for a .470NE. I don't know if all WD's were built this light, but I liked the gun so much that it came as a bitter disappointment to me. I did not want to add weight to the gun for fear of changing it's handling and balance. Has anyone else had a similar experience?

Geronimo

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AfricanHunter
.275 member


Reged: 01/02/04
Posts: 60
Loc: Nebraska, USA
Re: William Douglass [Re: Geronimo]
      #21759 - 06/12/04 02:06 AM

I have seen probably half a dozen of them and they were all light as you indicate. I agree, too light, but... when you are "up close and personal" with that elephant coming your direction you will never notice it. However, at the range you might as well shoot a .577!

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Rusty
.333 member


Reged: 08/02/03
Posts: 464
Loc: Missouri City, Texas
Re: William Douglass [Re: lapsub]
      #21855 - 07/12/04 10:06 AM

Every Wm. Douglass I have seen has been a well made beautiful rifles. I wish I had one!

--------------------
Rusty
We band of brothers!
DRSS

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atkinson6
.375 member


Reged: 26/01/04
Posts: 678
Loc: Idaho
Re: William Douglass [Re: Rusty]
      #23093 - 01/01/05 03:57 PM

I like the ones I've handled, they balance well, are fitted up right it seems, I would like to own one...If the .470 is a bit light and it is, then I would load it with RL-15 and dacron to 2000 FPS, that should tame it down and it'll still kill very well indeed.....

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lapsub
.224 member


Reged: 25/11/04
Posts: 24
Re: William Douglass [Re: atkinson6]
      #23214 - 03/01/05 05:53 AM

mr atkinson:

thank you for your input, sir. i value your opinion very highly indeed. some of the "experts" at this forum are just arm-chair experts. i know you as a true expert, and a modest one as well.

my wm douglass is not overly light, and while the recoil is stout at the bench, it is OK in the field, both because in the field i am standing, and because i am thinking about other things, not anticipating recoil.

thanks & happy new years

lapsub

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