Forums.NitroExpress.com

Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact NitroExpress.com: James Mac Naughton .450 BPE DR

*** Enjoy NitroExpress.com? Participate and join in. ***

You are not logged in. [Login]

Main Index · Search · Active Topics
New user · Who's Online · FAQ · Calendar

Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifle Photos & Archive

Pages: 1

Beveldown
.224 member

Reged: 20/08/12
Posts: 28
Loc: Kansas City, USA

James Mac Naughton .450 BPE DR
#216979 - 19/09/12 08:41 AM

My first post of my first double rifle! By James Mac Naughton of Edinburgh. 28" barrels, 8.75 pounds. Made about 1898 according to a big fancy book on English gunmakers I sneaked a look at. Steel barrels, Jones underlever, cool two-piece butt plate and almost excellent bores.

I haven't found references on the web to any other Mac Naughton double rifles. Surely this isn't the only one.

Need a little help... Would you advise against rust bluing the barrels? They're very blotchy and have been refinished to some degree in the distant past (linear scratches under the old finish) so I don't think it will hurt the value. Second, the front sight is just too tiny for me. Any advice on finding a replacement or filing one out myself? I have a small horizontal mill to use in the effort. Many thanks.

Edited by CptCurl (19/09/12 09:49 PM)

Post Extras:

Huvius
.416 member

Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3556
Loc: Colorado

Re: James Mac Naughton .450 BPE DR [Re: Beveldown]
#216984 - 19/09/12 10:07 AM

Beveldown,
Welcome to NitroExpress! Strong entry too!

I you decide to do the barrels, I wouldn't hesitate a bit to sending it to Steve Bertram (bertramandco.com).
Steve and Menito have done a lot of work for me and they know what they are doing plus, Steve is a guild member so is a known guy. Take a look at my Dickson barrel they did for me here: http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=184211&an=0&page=4#Post184211

--------------------
He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

Post Extras:

MikeRowe
.333 member

Reged: 23/11/11
Posts: 478
Loc: Arkansas, USA

Re: James Mac Naughton .450 BPE DR [Re: Huvius]
#216990 - 19/09/12 10:59 AM

Beveldown

That looks like it'll turn into a lovely shooter. Those Scottish rifles are in a class by themselves.

The caterpillar - the frontsight - is a good little excercise in filing. I've made quite a few.
I blank them out on the mill, they usually have about a 15 degree dovetail, and silver solder a piece of silver on to form the bead from.

I had not seen your Dickson, Ben. A dear friend had one for a while just like it, but with the lock on the other side. It even had the shell on the fore end tip.

Post Extras:

tinker
.416 member

Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada

Re: James Mac Naughton .450 BPE DR [Re: MikeRowe]
#216991 - 19/09/12 11:10 AM

Welcome ti NitroExpress!

Beautiful rifle.
If you run nitro for black loads, you'll likely find the point of impact to be 6"-8" high. Most folks find this issue with such rifles. The new front sight will take care of this.
Blacking the barrels wouldn't likely affect value, as long as it's done (exactly) as it'd been done 100yrs ago. I'd leave them as-is though, because I highly value the 100yr patina seen here.

Enjoy the rifle
Please let us know how load development goes.
You have cast the chambers and slugged the bores..?
What's rate of twist? Bore and groove? Rifling profile?
Share the details, and take advantage of the store of experience here.

Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--

"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

Post Extras:

kamilaroi
.400 member

Reged: 18/12/04
Posts: 1803
Loc: sydney, new south wales, Austr...

Re: James Mac Naughton .450 BPE DR [Re: tinker]
#217001 - 19/09/12 05:09 PM

IIRC the barrels have been refurbished thus they can be sympathically restruck (engraving recut where necessary)and blacked with an appropriate formula. Just saying. YMMV...

Post Extras:

CptCurl
.450 member

Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5284
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...

Re: James Mac Naughton .450 BPE DR [Re: kamilaroi]
#217005 - 19/09/12 09:52 PM

Beveldown,

Welcome to NE.com. Thanks for joining and for posting your fine MacNaughton rifle. It should be a fine shooter.

Please join in the discussions, and enjoy!

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.

Post Extras:

Beveldown
.224 member

Reged: 20/08/12
Posts: 28
Loc: Kansas City, USA

Re: James Mac Naughton .450 BPE DR [Re: CptCurl]
#217072 - 22/09/12 01:45 AM

Thanks everyone for your comments. Twist is 1:35 inches. Rifling is "standard" (I may not be using the correct term, but it's just plain ol' rifling). I took some castings - not sure how good of a job I did so I may try again and report back rather than supply erroneous information. Would this be the correct forum to post those pictures and dimensions, or should I move to another area?

Post Extras:

rigbymauser
.400 member

Reged: 15/05/05
Posts: 1972
Loc: Denmark

Re: James Mac Naughton .450 BPE DR [Re: Beveldown]
#217078 - 22/09/12 06:27 AM

Quote:

Thanks everyone for your comments. Twist is 1:35 inches. Rifling is "standard" (I may not be using the correct term, but it's just plain ol' rifling). I took some castings - not sure how good of a job I did so I may try again and report back rather than supply erroneous information. Would this be the correct forum to post those pictures and dimensions, or should I move to another area?

...you just post here..nothing or nobody will hold you back...:LOL

This is what is all about..guns,loads and best of all...Pictures!!. All DR junkies wants pictures.

BTW..Great little rifle you have got there. With it´s 1:35 twist it might be regulated for a 360grain solid or 325grain express bullet(hollowpoint).

Welcome..

Post Extras:

Beveldown
.224 member

Reged: 20/08/12
Posts: 28
Loc: Kansas City, USA

Re: James Mac Naughton .450 BPE DR [Re: rigbymauser]
#217097 - 22/09/12 12:42 PM

Your bullet recommendation is good to see. I have some some 350 gr. swaged bullets from Buffalo Arms I'm starting with. Got my wad punch in the mail today and I saved a milk carton earlier in the week. Maybe I can patch a few bullets tomorrow morning and try a few shots in the afternoon.

Post Extras:

kuduae
.400 member

Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1792
Loc: middle of Germany

Re: James Mac Naughton .450 BPE DR [Re: Beveldown]
#217144 - 24/09/12 12:55 AM

Beveldown, you've got a very nice BPE double rifle there! My own is in much worse shape, but a good shooter and reliable killer too. Mine is in .500-.450 #1 BPE and is signed by A. Robertson & Son, Wick (Scotland). It also has conventional rifling, six square grooves wider than the lands, rh twist. Steel barrels, C.Homer's 1877 design foreend latch, pre-1887 Birmingham proof marks. Otherwise it so much resembles your McNaughton, I suspect both rifles originated in the same Birmingham shop, made for retail by the respective Scottish gunmakers McNaughton and Robertson.

Post Extras:

Beveldown
.224 member

Reged: 20/08/12
Posts: 28
Loc: Kansas City, USA

Re: James Mac Naughton .450 BPE DR [Re: kuduae]
#217156 - 24/09/12 08:09 AM

Thank you, Kuduae. Yes, nearly identical! Did I read somewhere that Dixon allegedly made many of the Scottish rifles, thus the similarities?

I slugged the bores about 2 inches deep into the muzzles... 7 lands, RH twist. Wide grooves - lands are only about 1/3 the width of the grooves. I could measure the slug across the grooves - .459. The grooves are .007 deep, measured straight across from the opposite land, thus .445 bore diameter? The bullets I have are .451, paper patched up to .463. Too big?

Post Extras:

DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27000
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: James Mac Naughton .450 BPE DR [Re: Beveldown]
#217176 - 25/09/12 01:31 AM

Beveldown - quite a change from a flintlock.

I'd think a 270gr. to 300gr. might be better from the accuracy standpoint for the slow rifling. It is possible the 350gr. will shoot, though.

If the patched bullets will fit into the fired cases, fine and dandy. Merely shoot them to find out if the rifle likes them.

I used to rub softened 60% beeswax, 40% Vaseline into the paper before pushing the patched bullets into the cases. The lube helps hold them there if they are barely an interferance fit (which is perfect). Would have to see if recoil of the right barrel, allowed the left bullet to move. Partical sizing can be done with a backed out .45/70 (or other .45 rifle) die, only running the case part way up into the die. Thus, any tension desired, can be adjusted for.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

Post Extras:

kuduae
.400 member

Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1792
Loc: middle of Germany

Re: James Mac Naughton .450 BPE DR [Re: Beveldown]
#217177 - 25/09/12 05:38 AM

Quote:

Thank you, Kuduae. Yes, nearly identical! Did I read somewhere that Dixon allegedly made many of the Scottish rifles, thus the similarities?

Beveldown, IMHO we should not look to the "name" Scottish gunmakers as to the origin of our rifles. Such simple, unengraved working rifles were usually outsourced by the British "name" and country gunmakers from the many no-name "gunmakers to the trade" of Birmingham, who made them to order in the "house style" of the "name" retailers. F.I., nearly noone knows J. Pople & Sons, 24 New Buildings, Price Street, Birmingham, but the guns and rifles made by them are highly praised and priced for the adress engraved on them and for their quality. They made most of the "second" or "Dominion" grade guns and rifles signed and retailed by Holland & Holland, the ones with the long backaction sidelocks.

Post Extras:

Beveldown
.224 member

Reged: 20/08/12
Posts: 28
Loc: Kansas City, USA

Re: James Mac Naughton .450 BPE DR [Re: kuduae]
#217275 - 27/09/12 11:54 AM

That's interesting. I have nothing to complain about my fine rifle, so thank you whoever for a fine job.

On the reloading piece - I've only shot new brass so far, a dozen shots or so without good result. I'm thinking once-fired (expanded) brass might do better. Not squeezing the bullet so tight, which may be damaging the patching on the way in.

Post Extras:

Pages: 1

Extra information

0 registered and 11 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator: CptCurl

Print Topic

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled

Rating:
Topic views: 8457

Jump to

NitroExpress.com

Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact