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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
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bwananelson
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reflex sight
      #215819 - 31/08/12 10:20 AM

has anyone tried a reflex sight on their double im interested think it may be the wave of thee future

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: reflex sight [Re: bwananelson]
      #215837 - 31/08/12 08:27 PM

I have seen a number of shooters report on the use of reflex sights on doubles. The reports have been favorable.

I have not tried it on a double but have a Trijicon RMR on a S&W Model 41.




Just recently a member posted photos of his Africa hunt with a DR equipped with a reflex sight. I can't find it just now, but maybe he will chime in.

It's not something I would put on a vintage double, but on a modern double it would be marvelous.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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500grains
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Reged: 16/02/04
Posts: 4732
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Re: reflex sight [Re: CptCurl]
      #215847 - 31/08/12 11:47 PM

A reflex sight by itself seems to be quite vulnerable to damage from bumping into stuff. Larue Tactical addressed that problem with a metal box surrounding the reflex sight.

http://www.laruetactical.com/larue-tactical-pride-fowler-irondot-low-profile-lt-624



Edited by CptCurl (09/09/12 09:58 PM)

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500grains
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Re: reflex sight [Re: 500grains]
      #215848 - 31/08/12 11:51 PM

There was an article in African Hunter magazine a few years ago about various red dot sights on safari rifles. Maybe someone else remembers and knows where to find it?

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Oldbrit
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Re: reflex sight [Re: 500grains]
      #215857 - 01/09/12 03:19 AM

There are a couple of doubles with some form of reflex/red dot optic on in Holts Sales:

http://auctions.holtsauctioneers.com/asp...2&saletype=

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93mouse
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Re: reflex sight [Re: 500grains]
      #215858 - 01/09/12 03:32 AM

Quote:

There was an article in African Hunter magazine a few years ago about various red dot sights on safari rifles. Maybe someone else remembers and knows where to find it?



Inyathi issue - No 3 of 2007 - "Are iron sights obsolete?" by Ganyana

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500grains
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Re: reflex sight [Re: 93mouse]
      #215861 - 01/09/12 04:05 AM

http://www.red-dot-scopes.com/aimpoint-micro-safari-mount-for-merkel-double-rifles-12201.html

http://www.clarkcustomguns.com/DblRifle.html



Edited by CptCurl (09/09/12 09:59 PM)

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Rule303
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Re: reflex sight [Re: 500grains]
      #215909 - 01/09/12 10:03 PM

Aimpoint would be my choice. The reason is there is nil paralax which means that when sighted in if you throw double to your shoulder and the dot appears to be off centre in the scope but is on target, you are on target. They are a rugged unit.

Some of the HUD sights like the Ultra Dot- not saying is the case with the UD as I have not looked through one- can be very finiky. That is if your eye is not dead centre you can not see the display.

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chuckT
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Re: reflex sight [Re: Rule303]
      #215929 - 02/09/12 08:58 AM

Have an Aimpoint 9000SC on a Ruger #1 450-400, Aimpiont Micro H-1 on a S&W 41 ( both tube style red dots ). J. Point Reflex on a S&W 629. Really like the Aimpoints, never lose the dots ,eye relief not an issue. I do sometimes lose the dot on the J. Point. My biggest problem with the dot sights has been getting use to that" little red speck" dancing all around the target.Have had to really concentrate to not start snatching at the trigger. For a double I would lean towards the Aimpoint Micro H-1.

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herrdoktor
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Reged: 03/08/07
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Re: reflex sight [Re: chuckT]
      #216430 - 09/09/12 08:14 PM

I am 58 and beginning to love "red points". I use them regularly in my bolt actions, but not yet in my doubles...
One year ago I got a Leupold red point that was very light and worked quite well... but I considered it was not rugged enough to take the ocasional whack. I changed it and installed an Aimpoint Micro T-1. You can throw it against a wall and will keep going. You can wash it under the tap. And the battery lasts a full five years.
I see an Aimpoint Micro over some of my doubles in a not very distant future.

Edited by herrdoktor (09/09/12 08:15 PM)

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: reflex sight [Re: herrdoktor]
      #216435 - 09/09/12 09:56 PM

I would love to try out my Trijicon RMR sights but it seems impossible to get bases for them here in Australia.

1. I contacted the agent, never got a reply.

2. I tried to buy from Trijicon in the USA. They won't ship overseas.

3. Someone agreed to accept it for me and get the bases to me. Trijicon won't accept non USA credit cards.

4. I contacted a Trijicon employee who works for them as a rep for Aust/Asia and half the world, he was going to see what he could do. Several months later ... and several emails without replies ... He is a member here on NE btw.

Around about a year since I bought the RMRs and still can't put them on a double rifle. Trijicon actually approached me in the beginning to try the RMRs out. BTW I had to pay full price for them ...

I'll give it a month or so more to see if Trijicon actually wants to sell stuff or not.

One more option to get the bases, perhaps, if they even exist. They are on the website so hopefully they do exist.

Edited to add: The base I need is for a 11-12 mm dovetail - - RM57: RMR Mount for Custom Rifles w/ 11-12mm Ribs

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

Edited by NitroX (09/09/12 10:21 PM)

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: reflex sight [Re: NitroX]
      #216436 - 09/09/12 10:03 PM

John,

The base on mine, pictured above, is their Picatinny base. I think it is the lowest one they have. I modified a Weaver rail to fit. Their base made for the Weaver mount is much higher.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
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Re: reflex sight [Re: NitroX]
      #216437 - 09/09/12 10:07 PM

BTW another problem to look out for these reflex sights is if you wish to use them due to decreasing eyesight, wearing glasses etc, try them out before buying.

Many people use them in preference to open sights as their eyesight is failing.

My eyesight about a year ago was pretty much perfect, but a few months later due to an illness it had decreased but has stabilised now. I needed glasses for reading.

1. I can still use express V open sights and other open sights without any problems.

2. I can use most scopes without a problem. Very fine cross hairs can be difficult.

3. The Trijicon dot is star like and very indistinct. I mentioned this on NE, and the Trijicon employee, Bob, said it was my eyesight. With and without glasses btw the same thing. Actually glasses make it worse.

So to test this I took a photograph of the dot, and yes, it was true, the dot was a proper circle in the photograph.

From this it can be concluded the reflex dot sights may be a WORSE alternative to even open sights. May depend on the conditions of one's eyesight, but should try them out first before buying if this is an issue.

Bob mentioned a triangular dot is better for eyesight problems, so would love to be able to try one of them out.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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bwananelson
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Reged: 08/10/07
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Re: reflex sight [Re: NitroX]
      #216470 - 10/09/12 08:39 AM

got an eotec its great its in my ar 300blackout but will try it on one of the zoli's

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THERE ARE NO DO OVERS IN LIFE DONT LET A CHANCE AT A DREAM SLIP AWAY.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: reflex sight [Re: NitroX]
      #216496 - 10/09/12 04:41 PM

Quote:

I would love to try out my Trijicon RMR sights but it seems impossible to get bases for them here in Australia.

....

I'll give it a month or so more to see if Trijicon actually wants to sell stuff or not.

One more option to get the bases, perhaps, if they even exist. They are on the website so hopefully they do exist.

Edited to add: The base I need is for a 11-12 mm dovetail - - RM57: RMR Mount for Custom Rifles w/ 11-12mm Ribs



The plan was to put one of them on my Tikka/Valmet double rifle, the other on one of the combination barrels, perhaps the 12g/7x65R barrel set. I have some spare Valmet mounts, so later would get a gunsmith to mill a dovetail into the mounts bridge, remove the rings, and mount the RMR dovetail base to the removable Valmet bridge mount. That way I could have a scope for the barrels, or remove it and use an RMR if I wished instead. The Valmet mounts are not really QD but supposedly can be removed without loss of zero. Need to test that one day.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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2Barrels
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Re: reflex sight [Re: NitroX]
      #216899 - 18/09/12 07:48 AM

I currently have a 450/400 3" being built on a J.P. Sauer 12ga SxS. In discussing the build, asked the builder to dovetail the rib so that I could use the Trijicon RMR mount. Specifically, the RM57. He has the mount in hand (took me about 6 weeks to get it from Trijicon).

My 'quandry' now is which RMR to use. I'm leaning toward the RM06 with the adjustable LED and 3.25 MOA red dot, though the thought of batteries in optics is somewhat unappealing. Over the weekend I saw a clip where Ivan Carter has a RMR mounted on one of his Heyms. He appears to be using the dual-illuminated version. Unfortunately, from I can gather from Trijicon's web site, the smallest dot on the dual-illuminated version is a 7 MOA YELLOW dot and twice the size as the adjustable LED version. For Ivan's 577 or 600 NE 'stoppers' this may be fine, but for my 450/400 NE, I think that dot is too big. (3.25 MOA @ 50yds = ~ 1.66" whereas 7 MOA at the same distance is 3.5")

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Re: reflex sight [Re: 2Barrels]
      #216904 - 18/09/12 08:46 AM

From my experience I would not want a red dot larger than 3.5 to 4.0 MOA. I don't think I would be in too much of a sweat over having a battery onboard.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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bwananelson
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Re: reflex sight [Re: CptCurl]
      #216909 - 18/09/12 11:40 AM

1.66 inches on a buffalo chest dont see the dilemma....1 minute of buffalo is huge

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SharpsNitro
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Re: reflex sight [Re: bwananelson]
      #216913 - 18/09/12 12:46 PM

Don't let the battery bother you too much, the batteries in these things last a long time, I've got one that's been mounted an on continuously for over two years and it's still going strong. I just pulled the sight off a pistol to send to the Smith building my 404, it's going on dovetails cut in the quarter rib.

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Mauser416
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Re: reflex sight [Re: 2Barrels]
      #216925 - 18/09/12 09:52 PM

2barrels,

Would you be willing to share who is doing your work and of course pictures of the gun where possible?

Eric

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Surge45
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Re: reflex sight [Re: bwananelson]
      #219006 - 04/11/12 01:36 PM

I just had my gunsmith install a Trijicon RMR (RM06) on my Krieghoff Classic Double. When I first shot the rifle with open sights I was getting 6-8" "groups" (more or less in the black) at 50 yards using a stand up rest. The first time I shot the rifle with the RMR using the same rest, the groups were 1-2" in average. I'm 50 and my eyes just ain't what they used to be. I have an upcoming Cape hunt next April and I want to make a fantastic confident first shot - regardless of what folks out there say about using dots or scopes on doubles.

I contacted Krieghoff and their "solution" was a ridiculous number of adapters and bases - four in all. I'm sure it would have mounted the sight about 2" above the rib! Over-engineering at it's best. My gunsmith just said to drill two holes on the top rib and use a blank base.









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NitroXAdministrator
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Re: reflex sight [Re: Surge45]
      #219009 - 04/11/12 05:00 PM

Good shooting.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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Surge45
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Re: reflex sight [Re: NitroX]
      #219023 - 04/11/12 10:36 PM

Quote:

Good shooting.



Thanks! There's a Cape Buffalo out there in trouble next April!

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Surge45
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Re: reflex sight [Re: 2Barrels]
      #219024 - 04/11/12 11:03 PM

Quote:

My 'quandry' now is which RMR to use. I'm leaning toward the RM06 with the adjustable LED and 3.25 MOA red dot, though the thought of batteries in optics is somewhat unappealing. Over the weekend I saw a clip where Ivan Carter has a RMR mounted on one of his Heyms. He appears to be using the dual-illuminated version. Unfortunately, from I can gather from Trijicon's web site, the smallest dot on the dual-illuminated version is a 7 MOA YELLOW dot and twice the size as the adjustable LED version. For Ivan's 577 or 600 NE 'stoppers' this may be fine, but for my 450/400 NE, I think that dot is too big. (3.25 MOA @ 50yds = ~ 1.66" whereas 7 MOA at the same distance is 3.5")



I went through the same decision making process when selecting the RM06. With the RM06, the dot just about covers the red circle on the target at 50 yards (see my pic). I don't think I can get more precision out of that optic. I thought that a 7 MOA dot at 100 yards (or 3.5" dot at 50) would be way too big and would cover too much real estate on the target during the moment of truth. The adjustable dot on the RM06 is very visible in all light conditions - I've tried it outdoors at "high noon". The range has a cover at the firing line so I wanted to make sure I could see the dot in bright sunlight. Trijicon indicates that it has a battery life of 1 year. I turn mine off when not in use (though the instructions also indicate that it's always "on"?). I also thought of worse case scenarios: 1. The dot fails during my hunt or the batteries run out - My second rifle will be a scoped 375 H&H Dakota 76 so I could use that in a pinch. 2. If the sight fails during the follow up of a potential wounded buffalo (it won't happen but have to plan for it) - I think I could still use my DR as this is more of an instinctive "mount and shoot" type of shot rather than an aiming shot. Or I can use my 375 during the follow-up but I know I'd feel a heck of a lot better with a DR in my hands. In addition, I'll probably change the battery and verify the sight-in right before I leave to Africa.

Aside from the huge 7 MOA dot, one of the two "dual illumination" vehicles is a tritium sight - which is useless for me during the day. The other is their fiber optic technology. I didn't find it as bright as the LED light when I looked through it at the shop.

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