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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Cast Bullets
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Huvius
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Chain Wax for Bullet Lube?
      #213464 - 26/07/12 11:36 AM

I recently read of another cast bullet loader using spray chain wax for lubing his bullets.
Sounded like it would be worth a try so I bought a can at my local motorcycle parts store.
The brand they carry is Maxima which is a non-petroleum based lube.
http://www.maximausa.com/shopping/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=5&products_id=28

I sprayed it on some bullets and it looks and they feel pretty much like Alox coated bullets.
I also sprayed some bullets prior to sizing and they pushed as smoothly through the die as any other lube I have used and I tried some on paper patched bullets prior to resizing and that seemed to work well too.
Now, to get out and shoot some.
Any thoughts on this technique?

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DarylSModerator
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Re: Chain Wax for Bullet Lube? [Re: Huvius]
      #213495 - 27/07/12 01:54 AM

Sounds good. I'm interested in your results, Huvius. Rifle, handgun or both?

Does this wax chain lube dry, or still soft and gooey? What about lint attractant?

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Oldbrit
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Re: Chain Wax for Bullet Lube? [Re: DarylS]
      #213499 - 27/07/12 03:27 AM

As a cast bullet shooter this sounds interesting, the proof will be in the shooting. Please keep us informed as this sounds promising.

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Oldbrit
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Re: Chain Wax for Bullet Lube? [Re: Oldbrit]
      #213503 - 27/07/12 03:53 AM

This looks as though it might be promising:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/WURTH-HIGH-PERFORMANCE-CHAIN-500mls/dp/B001MQ035I/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top

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DarylSModerator
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Re: Chain Wax for Bullet Lube? [Re: Oldbrit]
      #213514 - 27/07/12 10:16 AM

I'd lay odds the Kawasaki, Yamaha, Honda not Harley dealerships have that same lube, but they do have chain lubes that are spray and 'set up' after application. I'll have to look into that.

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Oldbrit
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Re: Chain Wax for Bullet Lube? [Re: DarylS]
      #213823 - 01/08/12 03:17 AM

I bought a can of the Wurth dry chain lubricant from Amazon (see above) and I’ve been spraying bullets.

I happen to have a supply of Lyman 452424 Keith SWC bullets which I intend to shoot in my 45 Colt Trapper. I’ve sprayed them sized (.451”) and unsized (.453”) and sized after spraying. So far I’ve noticed the following:

• A light spray goes on evenly and is transparent. A can of the spray would seem to do for a lot of bullets. There’s a warning on the can that it must be shaken vigorously before use.

• The spray takes a full 24 hours to dry hard, after only twelve hours it can easily be rubbed off but once hard appears to be at least as durable as the Lee Liquid Alox and not sticky at all. The instructions on the can say that before spraying on a chain, the bike should be run first so the chain is warm. I suspect that warming the bullets (say with a fan heater) prior to spraying would speed up the drying process. I’ll experiment with this.

• To a casual glance the bullets look unchanged once dry and it’s only when you pick them up that you can feel the light waxy coating. The bullets that I sprayed before sizing, sized very easily and seemed to retain a wax film on the bullet.

I should be able to try shooting some of these bullets on Thursday and I’ll report back. They’ll only be loaded to about 1,000 f.p.s. If this proves to be successful I’ll try them on .375” cast rifle bullets which I load to 1,950 f.p.s.

Watch this space!!!

Huvius… how have you got on?

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DarylSModerator
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Re: Chain Wax for Bullet Lube? [Re: Oldbrit]
      #213851 - 01/08/12 09:53 AM

Good report, Oldbrit. Looking forward to hearing how they shoot.

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Daryl


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Huvius
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Re: Chain Wax for Bullet Lube? [Re: DarylS]
      #213871 - 01/08/12 11:35 PM

Haven't been to the range yet.
I loaded up some for the 461with a sprayed paper patch which went back through the sizing die before loading.
I suspect this may be pointless with a PP bullet but figured I would try anyway. One thought that came to mind is that it may hinder the release of the paper from the bullet... Will see.
I will spray some bullets for the 310 and see how they do Friday.
The Maxima lube sprays on kind of an amber color and looks to be more controllable than my alox method of coating bullets in a baggie.
Glad someone else is interested enough to try it too. I am admittedly rarely getting to the range these days...

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Oldbrit
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Re: Chain Wax for Bullet Lube? [Re: Huvius]
      #213985 - 03/08/12 06:45 AM

I only loaded 15 rounds of 45 Colt as I didn’t want lots of useless ammunition left if the experiment failed. All the rounds shot as accurately as any of my regular ammunition. I cleaned the barrel before shooting and there was some powder fouling and some lead in the barrel after shooting. The leading wasn’t excessive and the next test will be 50 rounds loaded to see what happens. The bullets may benefit from a heavier or even a second coat. I was very sparing with the spray initially.

It strikes me that ultimately, I will only use this spray lube for specialised applications. If I have to size bullets I might as well lube them conventionally at the same time. The applications I have in mind are:

• The heel base bullets that I shoot in 38 Rook. I can’t lube these conventionally and currently use Lee Liquid Alox. If it’s successful, the spray wax will be much cleaner and easier to apply. I think it might be very useful in this application.

• I load Lyman 314299 in 303 British (with varying degrees of success). This bullet has a long nose that rides on the lands. I can imagine an advantage in spray lubing the bullets prior to conventional lubrisizing. I will try spraying some of my existing stock of lubrisized bullets and see if it cuts down on fouling in my slightly rough Lee Speed’s barrel.

I’ll report back on progress (or otherwise).

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Huvius
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Re: Chain Wax for Bullet Lube? [Re: Oldbrit]
      #214055 - 05/08/12 12:14 AM

Quote:

The applications I have in mind are:

• The heel base bullets that I shoot in 38 Rook. I can’t lube these conventionally and currently use Lee Liquid Alox.



I think that is the direction I will continue on as well.
I loaded 12 rounds of 310 Cadet with spray chain lube and had 20 of my loaded rounds with the Alox coated bullets to take to the range.
Result? Looks like the chain wax works every bit as well as the Alox, in fact, I shot them first and thought the bores in my double generally looked better than they do shooting the Alox bullets.
Accuracy didn't suffer with the spray lube either.

I also shot the Gibbs with the paper patch coated and noticed no difference as compared to the regular paper patch so I think I will just paper patch as normal and not bother with the spray lube on those.

Here is a picture of the bullets after being sprayed and transferred to a little pan to dry. I think setting them on wax paper may be better as they stick a bit to the pan but the bases can be wiped to prevent any powder from sticking to them.



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Oldbrit
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Re: Chain Wax for Bullet Lube? [Re: Huvius]
      #214309 - 10/08/12 07:52 PM

I did a further test of the Wurth spray chain lubricant yesterday.

I loaded 50 rounds of 45 Colt with 8.6 grs of Universal Clays and the Lyman 250 gr SWC. The bullet alloy is approximately 95% lead, 5.5% tin and 0.5% antimony. Using Lee 50/50 beeswax, alox lubricant in a lubrisizer, leading is effectively zero in my Trapper carbine.

I sized the bullets to .451”, sprayed them with the chain spray and gave them a good thick coating. On reflection I think this was a mistake as it took three days to feel dry enough to load. Two thin coats would probably have been better.

I cleaned the barrel and then fired two targets of ten rounds each to establish a benchmark for accuracy and this was in line with my normal expectations. I then fired twenty rounds quickly just knocking things around on the stop butts until the barrel was really quite hot and then shot another 10 round slow fire target.

The final target was as good as the first ones and a patch through the barrel revealed powder fouling and a few traces of lead but no more than I would have found from my conventionally lubricated bullets.

I conclude that this chain wax works as well as anything else at these sorts of velocities, it’s cleaner and easier to use than the Lee Liquid Alox and it just plain looks better. The stuff I’m using just leaves a silver sheen on the bullets. I’ve tested this on the 45 Colt bullets simply because I had some cast and waiting to be lubed but I’m now quite confident about using this stuff on my rook rifle bullets. I’ll try it on bullets for my 303 and/or my 375 the next time I cast some.

Edited by Oldbrit (11/08/12 03:51 AM)

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DarylSModerator
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Re: Chain Wax for Bullet Lube? [Re: Oldbrit]
      #214329 - 11/08/12 01:13 AM

That's good news. I guess I'll have to get some to test.

--------------------
Daryl


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Huvius
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Re: Chain Wax for Bullet Lube? [Re: DarylS]
      #214330 - 11/08/12 01:33 AM

I will have to try another brand too that is more clear rather than the brownish color.
The Maxima stuff looks and feels pretty much like Alox and always feels a little tacky. Maybe it is the hot weather lately but I would prefer something that actually dries to the touch. Sounds like the Wurth may be the one.
Good report!

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500grains
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Re: Chain Wax for Bullet Lube? [Re: Huvius]
      #215060 - 20/08/12 12:36 PM

I once bought some cast bullets from a guy and could not ID the smell of the lube so I asked him. He said he had melted down wax toilet rings, candles bought from yards sales and crayons to make the lube. It seemed to work ok but I kept the velocity down.

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DarylSModerator
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Re: Chain Wax for Bullet Lube? [Re: 500grains]
      #215075 - 20/08/12 01:39 PM

The wax toilet rings have many chemicals in them along with beeswax. That is why they don't rot.

If you want a good lube, that will handle up to 2,000fps in .40 through 50 cal, try 65% Beeswax/35% Vaseline- or 60/40 - works for me, for smokeless and BP loads and keeps BP fouling soft for repeated shots no wiping - as long as the grooves are for BP- IE: square and hold enough. With smokeless, normal smokeless bullets work.

Beeswax from a bee keeper cannot be beaten.

I have tried parafin - it is not in the same Province let alone ball park when used as the wax stiffening agent in a bullet lube mix.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Oldbrit
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Re: Chain Wax for Bullet Lube? [Re: DarylS]
      #215118 - 21/08/12 01:29 AM

A wealth of information on what goes into bullet lubes here:

http://www.lasc.us/LubeIngredients.htm

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MotelAlpha
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Re: Chain Wax for Bullet Lube? [Re: Oldbrit]
      #226875 - 12/03/13 11:13 AM

I bought a can at my local bike store,folowed the directions, and to put it mildy will not return to my old melt in the pie tin method.. My accuracy was right on, very little mess in the making..One thing I did notice, it that it does smell a bit like Uncle Mikes BP lube.

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Huvius
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Re: Chain Wax for Bullet Lube? [Re: MotelAlpha]
      #226925 - 13/03/13 01:22 AM

Quote:

I bought a can at my local bike store,folowed the directions, and to put it mildy will not return to my old melt in the pie tin method.. My accuracy was right on, very little mess in the making..One thing I did notice, it that it does smell a bit like Uncle Mikes BP lube.



Which brand did you buy?

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HistoricBore
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Re: Chain Wax for Bullet Lube? [Re: Huvius]
      #226930 - 13/03/13 02:33 AM

I missed this thread last year - sounds interesting! I may try it in my strange indoor loading for my .360 x 2.25" Alex. Henry, which is a 30-30 case cut off to remove the neck, and then with a .375" round ball pushed right inside the case on top of 4 grains of a medium-speed pistol powder.

Now I can try giving it a squirt on top of the ball after assembly - thanks guys!

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Oldbrit
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Re: Chain Wax for Bullet Lube? [Re: HistoricBore]
      #226944 - 13/03/13 07:20 AM

I've so far used the Wurth chain wax on 45 Colt in my Trapper and on 380 Rook. Total success in both cartridges. I'm currently shooting as cast, spary lubed bullets in my 45 Colt Trapper with accuracy as good as with lubri-sized bullets and no leading. I will get around to trying this with cast bullets in my 375 X 2½ as I promised but life keeps getting in the way.

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MotelAlpha
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Re: Chain Wax for Bullet Lube? [Re: Oldbrit]
      #226955 - 13/03/13 11:02 AM

The canned chain lube I purchase goes by the name of MAXIMA "wax chain lube" I got it for $11.00 at my local bike shop...Its really worth a try.

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DarylSModerator
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Re: Chain Wax for Bullet Lube? [Re: MotelAlpha]
      #226959 - 13/03/13 11:39 AM

My wife bought some wax chain lube, but it was ceramic - that's not going into my barrels. They claim the molecules are tiny Hmmmmm!
Best read the label closely, perhaps.

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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VonGruff
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Re: Chain Wax for Bullet Lube? [Re: DarylS]
      #227054 - 16/03/13 05:58 AM

Quote:

The wax toilet rings have many chemicals in them along with beeswax. That is why they don't rot.

If you want a good lube, that will handle up to 2,000fps in .40 through 50 cal, try 65% Beeswax/35% Vaseline- or 60/40 - works for me, for smokeless and BP loads and keeps BP fouling soft for repeated shots no wiping - as long as the grooves are for BP- IE: square and hold enough. With smokeless, normal smokeless bullets work.

Beeswax from a bee keeper cannot be beaten.

I have tried parafin - it is not in the same Province let alone ball park when used as the wax stiffening agent in a bullet lube mix.



I have run my 7x57 hunting loads with a 160gn cast bullet to 2400fps with that 60/40 BW/V and have fairly decent 100 yd groups. This was zeroing in a scope.


A simple lube has been formulated over on the CB forum

4 oz bees wax
4 teaspoons vaseline
2 teaspoons 2 stroke oil
2 teaspoons ATF

I have mixed up a batch and am in tests with my 6.5GM having the 123gn CB running in the 2250 - 2350 fps range with abou 1 3/4 in 100 yd groups. Have a bit of playing to do yet but with an 8 in twist if I can tighten the groups a little with an easier start to the velocity then it will make a dandy hunter as well.

--------------------
Von Gruff.

Exodus 20:1-17

Acts 4:10-12

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joelblack
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Re: Chain Wax for Bullet Lube? [Re: VonGruff]
      #232950 - 26/07/13 01:12 PM

I've used motorcycle chain wax for many year. It works great for smokeless loads, but not for black powder.

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DarylSModerator
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Re: Chain Wax for Bullet Lube? [Re: joelblack]
      #232964 - 26/07/13 11:25 PM

VonGruff- that is better than excellent accuracy for a hunting rifle with cast bullets.

2,400fps is terrific too. Looks like the BW/Vas works even better than with what I'd tested. Thanks for the insight.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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