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Tom_H
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Reged: 13/04/05
Posts: 336
Loc: Southeast, NY
Pre war german 71 stalking Rifle
      #212624 - 14/07/12 12:58 AM

I really coudn't think of a better subject line. Sorry about that.
I would be very interested in knowing what I have here. It has been in the family since the war, and a cousin of mine who is the current owner, would like to finally take it hunting. I am currently cobbling together some loads that actually shoot to the sights, as the factory spec loads do not.


A really nicely done rifle with lots of wire inlay. The action is a short version with an extractor that is only lightly attached to the bolt and is easily removed. Has the standing peep as well.


The extent of the load data


and the balance of the proofs


Tom

--------------------
Carbonation without fermentation is tyranny

Edited by CptCurl (08/10/12 12:26 AM)

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26994
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Pre war german 71 stalking Rifle [Re: Tom_H]
      #212628 - 14/07/12 01:16 AM

The action appears to be an updated 71/86, which originally (back in 1871) was a Model 71 designed and built by Peter Mauser and chambered for the 11 mm Mauser (.43 Mauser). IT later became the Model 71/76, also in 11mm Mauser, then the Model 71/86 or M71/84. This later version had a .446" groove diameter, rather than the original .457" groove diameter. The both had the .437" bore diameter - yes, it's wierd.

I did not know this action was used later than the 11mm Mausers, and for the 7.8mmX57 mm case. That is quite intersting.

Does this mean the 7.8x57 was originally a Black powder round? or were the 71/86's 'converted' or did they preceed the M88 and actually shoot the same .318" ammo with early smokeless powders?

I guess have questions too.

Yes, the extractor is easily lost from a removed bolt.

Tom - does this rifle have 2 bolt lugs or just one? I see what looks like a lug on the top of the closed bolt, but that is merely a guide to run in a slot when opened, I believe. a single bolt lug was complained about, in the 11mm mausers due to bolt cant on firing and susupected reduction in accuracy as a result. That's just one speculation/observation they made.

My own M71/76 has a virtually smooth, round bolt, except for the long bolt handle attachment, which is it's only lug. Other than the small lug/like guide shown in your picture, are they any other 'lugs' on the bolt's surface?

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Tom_H
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Reged: 13/04/05
Posts: 336
Loc: Southeast, NY
Re: Pre war german 71 stalking Rifle [Re: DarylS]
      #212633 - 14/07/12 01:35 AM

Hello Dary.
Should have mentioned, this one is an R360. The bolt handle is the only lug on this one, but for such a limited cartridge I an sure that it is within its limitations. The load that I tried was a 198@ 1800 (or whatever the load of 4350 actually clocked) but I may move back to 1500 with 3031.
Either way, it is shooting about 12" high currently and instead of changing the sights actually give it the load that was intended for it.

--------------------
Carbonation without fermentation is tyranny

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lancaster
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Re: Pre war german 71 stalking Rifle [Re: Tom_H]
      #212667 - 14/07/12 04:46 PM

very nice pre ww1 rifle, good old times
my first thought when I read 57 was 8x57IR with Mauser A-Base rim.
something I look for!














DWM K(Karlsruhe) M 88A headstamp





also available in 7x57R



it seems the 8x57 IR A-Base was a left over from first german trials for a smokless 8mm cartridge in 1888

it need a scope again, something also pre ww1 on claw mount. if you come to germany with this rifle some day its no problem.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

Edited by CptCurl (08/10/12 12:28 AM)

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Tom_H
.333 member


Reged: 13/04/05
Posts: 336
Loc: Southeast, NY
Re: Pre war german 71 stalking Rifle [Re: lancaster]
      #212697 - 15/07/12 12:33 AM

Thank you Lancaster for another stop on the tour of German cartridges. Yes, it would be nice to have the scope to go with it. That would be a nice excuse to pay a visit as I have relatives in Berlin.

Took it out yesterday


I was hoping that it would shoot to the sights with one of the loads. Um...no.

The 3031 loads are 200fps slower than the 4350 by the charts and one of the loads was a cast lead gc at 170gr.
What range was this thing sighted in for?!@%
The target was fired at 50yds. The bead covered the bull.

I was going to make a new front sight but there is a screw holding it in that is not going to give in easliy. It will snap off and I will have to drill it out, not to add that I don't have metric taps that small.

--------------------
Carbonation without fermentation is tyranny

Edited by CptCurl (08/10/12 12:29 AM)

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: Pre war german 71 stalking Rifle [Re: Tom_H]
      #212698 - 15/07/12 12:42 AM

Tom- it's doing very well. The M71-type rifle normally has the extended rim ammo as with the 11 mm Mauser, like this one that Lancaster posted:


Your rifle is grouping very well - I would suggest H4895 for further reductions if that is where you are headed. It may even shoot better than the 3031 loads as H4895 seems even better suited to reduced loads. I would not use any of the 4350's at all due to ignition problems and possible pressure excursions with reduced loads.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

Edited by CptCurl (08/10/12 12:30 AM)

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lancaster
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Reged: 06/05/08
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Re: Pre war german 71 stalking Rifle [Re: DarylS]
      #212705 - 15/07/12 04:50 AM

80 meter was a common distance to sight rifle's with the iron sight's

dwm made two loads in 8x57R 360:
12,7 gramm roundnose softpoint at 662 m/sec
10,2gramm roundnose softpoint at 703 m/sec
with a 68 mm long barrel

can you show the bolt head? if it was a sporterized Mauser M 71 the 8x57 IR A-base would be ideal because its excact the rim of the 11,15x60R. but they made a lot of scaled -down M 71 actions in suhl for hunting and target rifles in 9,3x72R, 8,15x46R and 8x57R 360. you may know that all 3 rounds are based on the same 360 BPE 2 1/4" mother case.

if you can bring the barreled action( the rest of the riofle could be stay home) to berlin I can help you with the claw mount. the gunmaker who had made the claw mount on my mosin sporter( you maybe hear of this) is 30 km south of berlin. if its discussed with him before it will be done after 1-2 weeks and you can take it home again.
you only need an period scope, he have old claw mount parts or make it if necessary.

cost +/- 200 euro but if you prefer soldered half rings it will easy double the price I fear

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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Tom_H
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Reged: 13/04/05
Posts: 336
Loc: Southeast, NY
Re: Pre war german 71 stalking Rifle [Re: lancaster]
      #212718 - 15/07/12 09:51 AM

Thank you Lancaster
That sounds like a great way to get rings. 200 euros, excellent. As far as teh ammo is concerned, What was the St.Mg 15gr on the barrel referring to than?

Tom

--------------------
Carbonation without fermentation is tyranny

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Tom_H
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Reged: 13/04/05
Posts: 336
Loc: Southeast, NY
Re: Pre war german 71 stalking Rifle [Re: Tom_H]
      #213680 - 30/07/12 11:53 AM

Finally.

I cut the new rear sight to match the original but substantially lower. Actually, I couldn't make it low enough as the stock was getting uncomfortable at that point but this is what I ended up with.



For an easy translation: The upper group was fired with the peep elevated but with a 6pm hold on the 3" bull. The Long seated bullets were inaccurate compared to the short seated rounds.(the short matches factory oal)

The lower group was fired with just the irons, but covering the bull entirely.

This was only around 3" high at 50 yds, the same at 100 and it should be on at 130.
Very happy with the accuracy at close range.

--------------------
Carbonation without fermentation is tyranny

Edited by CptCurl (08/10/12 12:30 AM)

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