Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact
NitroExpress.com: Using your double to its fullest

View recent messages : 24 hours | 48 hours | 7 days | 14 days | 30 days | 60 days | More Smilies


*** Enjoy NitroExpress.com? Participate and join in. ***
You are not logged in. [Login] Main Index · Search · Active Topics
New user · Who's Online · FAQ · Calendar

Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Double Rifles
Previous topic Previous   View all topics Index   Next topic Next   Threaded Mode Threaded  

Pages: 1 | 2 | (show all)
CptCurlAdministrator
.450 member


Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5284
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: Using your double to its fullest [Re: DUGABOY1]
      #21484 - 30/11/04 09:18 AM

Dugaboy and 4seventy,

I have sent the heavier bullets screaming out of the rifle, yet they still shoot apart.

I don't own a chronograph, but I occasionally have the use of one. I did chronograph my best loads with the 270 grain Speer bullet. That load was 55.0 gr. IMR 4320, with a CCI 200. The average of both barrels was 2284 fps. I did not want to go any hotter than that.

I have not chronographed other loads in the 9.3x74R, but I have tried a multitude. They all cry out for lighter bullets by spreading the barrel groups. Not until I started shooting the 235 Hawk did I ever see the barrel groups come together or cross. With the 235 this occurs exactly where you expect it (although I can't report specifics, as I don't have that data on my computer or otherwise at hand). I am shooting Hodgdon 4350, with the powder right to the base of the bullet.

So that's how my 9.3 acts! I think I would have to load with TNT to get a heavy bullet fast enough to print together. The rifle is not stamped with a bullet weight, but it tells me loud and clear that it was regulated for the 15 gram bullet.

338x74R,

I did email MidwayUSA asking if they would carry the 15 gram Norma Vulkan bullet. Got no reply. I intend to call them about it.

By the way, I read an article many years ago about the wildcat 338x74R. I believe Elmer Keith had one made up - it's been that long ago. I love the .338 bore and have shot a .338 Win. Mag. a zillion times. I almost had a .338x74R built on a Sharps Borschardt action. Never did it, but I think it would have been a dandy.

And now, since we have been discussing the wellbeing of my 9.3x74R, I'll just let you peek at it a little closer. It's an old codger with proofs pre-dating 1912.







--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
new_guy
Sponsor


Reged: 10/08/04
Posts: 581
Loc: Texas
Re: Using your double to its fullest [Re: CptCurl]
      #21507 - 30/11/04 02:44 PM

beautiful little gun... one can hardly affort to buy quality like that anymore.

--------------------
www.heymUSA.com

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
CptCurlAdministrator
.450 member


Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5284
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: Using your double to its fullest [Re: new_guy]
      #21509 - 30/11/04 03:06 PM

New Guy,

Thanks for the kind words. I was really fortunate to run across this rifle and like it a lot.

Dugaboy and 4seventy,

When I got home this evening, I checked on my current load for it. 70.0 grains of Hodgdon 4350, CCI 250, 235 Hawk regulates fine. Any more powder and they begin to cross.

Regards,
CptCurl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
mickey
.416 member


Reged: 05/01/03
Posts: 4647
Loc: Pend Oreille Valley, Idaho
Re: Using your double to its fullest [Re: new_guy]
      #21510 - 30/11/04 03:07 PM

That is a beautiful rifle in a wonderful caliber. You would just have to be proud to be in possesion of that.

--------------------
Lovu Zdar
Mick

A Man of Pleasure, Enterprise, Wit and Spirit Rare Books, Big Game Hunting, English Rifles, Fishing, Explosives, Chauvinism, Insensitivity, Public Drunkenness and Sloth, Champion of Lost and Unpopular Causes.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
CptCurlAdministrator
.450 member


Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5284
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: Using your double to its fullest [Re: mickey]
      #21513 - 30/11/04 03:50 PM

Mickey,

Thank you also.

Just to throw a little more fat on the fire, here's a pic I snapped the day I got it home. It has its original Zeiss Zielklein scope of 1 1/2 X.

I read on the threads that scopes on DR's are very controversial. Nevertheless, the Germans loved them. I'm just glad this one survived the years in good servicable condition and still with the rifle.

One blessed thing about this rifle is that nobody has buffed the action, reblued the barrels, and refinished the stock.

The old German hunted with it and took good care of it. It shows honest wear, but no abuse or neglect. He put it away in good order. It probably came to the USA in 1945 as war booty. The GI had no idea what caliber it was. No cartridges from the hardware store fit, so he shoved it back in the closet and forgot it.

When I found it last year at a gun show it was still in an ancient leg-of-mutton case, and the scope was still in its original side-carry leather scope case. The guy I bought it from had no clue what it was or even what caliber it was. There are no caliber markings on the barrels at all.

I had the impression he snagged it first out of the closet. That made me second out of the closet - a good position in the food chain. I knew at a glance what it was and what caliber it is, and I think I am the first person since the old German to make use of the rifle.

The barrels had some very old cupro-nickel fowling which cleaned right out. No corrosion. Very fortunate. They are 60 cm (23 5/8"), chopper lumps, best Krupp steel.

The rifle is well balanced and handy - 8.76 lbs. with scope attached.

When I hunt with this rifle I think about the old German. I touch it where his hands were so many years ago. No doubt my thoughts while in the woods are near to what he was thinking as he carried it in search of red stag. I believe he would be glad to know the rifle again travels in hands that know how to use it as intended.

I also wonder about what hands will carry this rifle, and the others I own, several generations from now.

There are spirits in these old firearms that link us to the past and to the future.

Aye, the mystique; the fascination!

CptCurl




--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
DUGABOY1
.400 member


Reged: 02/02/03
Posts: 1340
Loc: TEXAS USA
Re: Using your double to its fullest [Re: CptCurl]
      #21532 - 01/12/04 03:51 AM

In reply to:

And now, since we have been discussing the wellbeing of my 9.3x74R, I'll just let you peek at it a little closer. It's an old codger with proofs pre-dating 1912.




That is a beautiful rifle, congratulations on the find! Being an old codger for a 9.3X74R is young for a double rifle! The 9.3X74R was introduced in 1900! I have many doubles that were old rifle when any 9.3X74R was made, and they take a licking, and keep on ticking!

--------------------
..........Mac >>>===(x)===>
DUGABOY1, and MacD37 founding member of DRSS www.doublerifleshooterssociety.com
"If I die today, I have had a life well spent, for I've been to see the Elephant, and smelled the smoke of Africa!"

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Chasseur
.375 member


Reged: 18/11/03
Posts: 771
Loc: Hunting classic Indian game!
Re: Using your double to its fullest [Re: CptCurl]
      #21609 - 02/12/04 04:22 PM

CptCurl,

I had a similar problem with my 9.3. Chapuis regulated it with 232 Norma oryx (agaisnt my wishes...). I wanted 286 normas... I tried several hand loads for 286gr woodleighs, and gave up. Just as you both barrels shot high and apart even when I worked up loads, though I stopped way before I had any "pressure signs" but I went to the limits of my loading manuals and still no luck...

I worked up a load that both barrels individually liked, and had JJ at Champlain re-regulate them. I figured I could sit there and waste time money on reloads, or just bite the bullet and pay some money to have the gun work the way I wanted it to with reloads I can easily make. JJ did a great job and it regulates with both my hand loads and norma 286 gr oryx factory.

For the 232 norma oryx, Graf and sons were selling it last year, dont know about now... I've had great luck with relatively inexpensive woodleigh bullets from Midway, not much more expensive than most American 9.3 bullets.

Beautiful rifle you have by the way
Hope this helps



--------------------
In regards to action he should devote himself to hunting...
-Machiavelli



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
CptCurlAdministrator
.450 member


Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5284
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: Using your double to its fullest [Re: Chasseur]
      #21621 - 02/12/04 11:12 PM

Chasseur,

Out of curiosity, what was JJ's turnaround on regulating your rifle? Also, how huge of a pile of money does it require?

I'm happy enough with mine regulated for the 15 gram bullets and don't think I would change it, but it never hurts to know this type of information for future projects.

I checked Graf and found nothing. I'm not sure I navigated their website correctly, though.

Thanks for your comments.

Regards,
CptCurl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
bonanza
.400 member


Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: Using your double to its fullest [Re: CptCurl]
      #21622 - 03/12/04 12:53 AM

Have any of you meet JJ, I have. Young guy, only 40. I had the pleasure of doing some business with him recently and needed to spend the night in Enid. He put me up at his ranch. We stayed up late drinking scotch, talking guns, shooting, politics, and race cars. Oh yes, he is an avid SCCA ITA sports car racer.

If any of you are pilots, as myself, his shop is located directly on the airport (KWDG) in Enid. So if you are every doing a X-country stop in and say hey.

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
NE450No2
.375 member


Reged: 10/01/03
Posts: 942
Re: Using your double to its fullest [Re: Chasseur]
      #22170 - 13/12/04 08:29 AM

CaptCurl
Very nice rifle. I have used Norma factory 232 Vulcan on deer and pigs with good results. I have seen a Sweedish test with this bullet used on Moose with excellent results. If you are hunting only North America [No Brown Bears} you should have no problems with the 232. But...
Chasseur has the solution, re-regulate your rifle to the 286 grain bullets. JJ Perodeau of Champlin Arms is the man for the job. I have shot quite a bit of game with the 286 grain bullets and have had excellent results with the 286 Woodleigh Soft and the 286 Nosler Partition. I have taken 300 + lb pigs, black bear [including a 383 pounder] waterbuck and kudu. The 286 grain bullets work equally well on smaller game such as bobcat, turkey, deer, impala, coyote etc.
Also I carried 286 grain Woodleigh solids while hunting in Africa. Several times while hunting plains game we became "danger close" to elephants, at which time the PH would turn to me and say "Two Solids Please". Never had to use them. I do consider the 9,3 a bit light for buff and elephant, as do I the 375 H&H. I prefer .40 cal and 400 grains as the minimum for them, but for ALL lesser game at under 300 yards I consider my 9,3x74R Chapuis double the best rifle around.
On deer sized animals the 285 gr Hawk with the .035 jacket might kill a bit quicker, but the Nosler or the Woodleigh is plenty good enough. However since my Chapuis shoots all 3 of them to the same zero and regulates well to 200 yards I can interchange them as I see fit.
I can state that I have found the 9,3 Chapuis double rifle to be one of the best hunting rifles on the planet, it only weighs 7 1/4 lbs with out the scope, the QD mounts go back to zero, it handles like a fine small gauge shotgun, and hits game like the Hammer of Thor. The iron sights work very good I have killed at least 50% of the game shot with this rifle with the iron sights. However I consider a scope a NECESSITY WITH A 9,3 DOUBLE. With a scope you can make shots that you should not even consider with iron sights.
For example how many people hunt with an iron sighted 300 mag???
For game under buff at under 300 yards I prefer my 9,3 to any other rifle I have used... It is that good.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
400NitroExpress
.400 member


Reged: 26/11/03
Posts: 1154
Loc: Lone Star State
Re: Using your double to its fullest [Re: CptCurl]
      #22176 - 13/12/04 11:11 AM

CptCurl:

J. J. 's re-regulating service is excellent. He won't mess up your rifle. He re-regulated a .450/.400 for me back in '97. I put off having this done for a long time over worry about cosmetics, as this rifle is in high original condition. Regulation is perfect now, with no cosmetic evidence that any work has been done at all. Too long ago to remember how long it took, but it wasn't very long. I paid $500. Just work up a good consistent load that puts the rights together and the lefts together at standard velocity and he'll put the groups together for you.

I have to agree with NE 450 No. 2, if a 9.3 doesn't regulate well with 285 grain, re-regulate it. Thats the most useful weight for that cartridge and the most likely to be available in factory ammunition.
---------------------------------------

--------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
CptCurlAdministrator
.450 member


Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5284
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: Using your double to its fullest [Re: 400NitroExpress]
      #22183 - 13/12/04 12:33 PM

400Nitro and NE450No2,

Thanks for the advice. I just may consider re-regulating my 9.3 at some point in time.

Regards,
CptCurl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
bonanza
.400 member


Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: Using your double to its fullest [Re: CptCurl]
      #22195 - 14/12/04 12:34 AM

Really usefull load for my new 470. I just finished regulating a 375Gr. hard-cast heat-treated lead bullet load. 77Gr of R15 (with filler) prints a nice 1.7" four shot group 1.5" high dead center at 50 yards. The bullets are from Cast Performace and are quite cheap. They are serious hunting projectiles and have an excellent record on all large game.

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
atkinson6
.375 member


Reged: 26/01/04
Posts: 678
Loc: Idaho
Re: Using your double to its fullest [Re: 338X74R]
      #22641 - 25/12/04 10:11 AM

Yeah but 450#2 you, mac, rusty,mickey, maybe 500 grs. are all fanatics!!, gone off the deep end and your taking everbody I know with you!

There are a world of guns out there better suited for hunting than a double rifle, except in the short rows!

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
NE450No2
.375 member


Reged: 10/01/03
Posts: 942
Re: Using your double to its fullest [Re: atkinson6]
      #23098 - 01/01/05 04:21 PM

Fanatics??? Gone off the deep end???
I think were are enlightened adventurers.
Sportsmen of the highest order.

We have rediscovered that a double is the superior rifle for the true hunter.

The British Nitro Express Double Rifle, made before 1940 [or so] is the finest rifle ever to be made on the Planet.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
cr500
.300 member


Reged: 11/10/03
Posts: 215
Loc: Singleton ,Australia
Re: Using your double to its fullest [Re: NE450No2]
      #23168 - 02/01/05 01:33 PM

Its true what you say about some bolt actions being finicky. I have tried all sorts of loads in my 458 Lott ,trying to get 300 gn bullets to hit in the same spot as 400gn bullets and hopefully close to 500 gn bullets. The 300s are hitting way way higher than the 400s and more again than the 500s ,even going up and down in powder charges. I suppose ,having heavier barrels as on a double might make things closer. I hope so ,as I am getting a double some day and would like to have lighter practice loads as you did.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
NE450No2
.375 member


Reged: 10/01/03
Posts: 942
Re: Using your double to its fullest [Re: cr500]
      #23170 - 02/01/05 01:57 PM

cr500
I have found it very easy to get the double rifle to shoot lighter bullets to the same impact point [and regulate].
Single barreled rifles, bolts and single shots are MUCH more finiky. When you get your double let us know, a good light bullet load can be found.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Rusty
.333 member


Reged: 08/02/03
Posts: 464
Loc: Missouri City, Texas
Re: Using your double to its fullest [Re: atkinson6]
      #23203 - 03/01/05 12:26 AM

Yep, that us! Fanatics, deep ender!

A double can't drive a bullet as fast or as accurate as a bolt rifle. It isn't designed to be a long range killer, unless NE450#2 is shooting his 9.3X74R.

They require attention, patience, and a lot of research to get them to shoot like they can.

I can't think of any "GOOD" reason to own a double rifle. . .

I guess that's why I have one. I do know that I would not trade the time I have spent learning about double rifles for anything.

The time I spend in the company of and hunting with my fellow DRSS members is the best time any man could hope for.

Priceless!

Last year hunting at Camp Cooley Ranch, NE450#2, 400 Nitro Express and I are following Ryan, guide at Camp Cooley, through chest high youpon thickets hunting Eland cows. We are weaving thru some real thick stuff following a very narrow cow trail. All of us had emerged from a high wall of brush into a chest deep area. From our left came the sound of something big crashing thru the brush. Ryan turns around to see a big eland bull go past us. What was really funny about this was that by the time he turned to look, he said all three of us had our doubles up and on the eland as he emerge from the thicket! We all had a good laugh!

Best reason to buy a double rifle? The great people you meet/hunt with/and become friends with.

For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition;
And gentlemen in England now-a-bed
Shall think themselves accurs'd they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day.
Henry V


--------------------
Rusty
We band of brothers!
DRSS

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
atkinson6
.375 member


Reged: 26/01/04
Posts: 678
Loc: Idaho
Re: Using your double to its fullest [Re: Rusty]
      #23387 - 04/01/05 05:26 AM

N.E. and Rusty,
Just remember at Dallas not to stringhaulter and gilflurt me for without me furnishing members of your exclusive group with double rifles then you would fade into none existence!! so there!!

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
NE450No2
.375 member


Reged: 10/01/03
Posts: 942
Re: Using your double to its fullest [Re: atkinson6]
      #23447 - 04/01/05 01:26 PM

Ray, Since you gave aggie a good deal on his double you have 3 days of immunity while you are in Texas. I got you covered.

Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Chasseur
.375 member


Reged: 18/11/03
Posts: 771
Loc: Hunting classic Indian game!
Re: Using your double to its fullest [Re: atkinson6]
      #23516 - 05/01/05 12:44 PM

Not fanatics,

I prefer Dave Webber's (from Double Gun journal) term: 'double gun evangelist'

--------------------
In regards to action he should devote himself to hunting...
-Machiavelli



Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
Pages: 1 | 2 | (show all)


Previous topic Previous   View all topics Index   Next topic Next   Threaded Mode Threaded  

Extra information
0 registered and 656 anonymous users are browsing this forum.

Moderator:  CptCurl 

Print Topic

Forum Permissions
      You cannot start new topics
      You cannot reply to topics
      HTML is disabled
      UBBCode is enabled

Rating:
Topic views: 11356

Rate this topic

Jump to

Contact Us NitroExpress.com

Powered by UBB.threads™ 6.5.5


Home | Ezine | Forums | Links | Contact


Copyright 2003 to 2011 - all rights reserved