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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Building Double Rifles & Gunsmithing
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Alasgun
.224 member


Reged: 24/12/10
Posts: 7
Loc: Alaska U.S.A
New Guy, building first double
      #212168 - 06/07/12 09:32 AM

Greetings to Everyone;
You can learn a lot while lurking but sooner or later you develop a question and that requires a liitle effort.

I'm a early 60's been a Machinist over 40 years kind of guy and am undertaking my first double rifle. Well, right now I'm gathering rhe pieces while I finish a 4 bore muzzle loading project.

I wanted something "simple" for a first project and am going with the Jones underlever action, which I have roughed in using 8620. The monoblock (4350 @ 45 R-c)is roughed in as well and I believe I'd like to get it barreled before going too far on the action. This will require a little soldering and that's where the question comes in.

I've been all over the net and found some very small tidbits but mostly vagery on this subject. I recently bought the Brown book "Building double rifles on shotgun actions" and was very dissapointed in it's lack of content.

Once I get to laying the ribs i'm good, but for now I am looking for some ideas (from someone who's done this)as to solder type for the 1/4 rib, sling swivel attachment point and the front sight. I believe these should be something other than soft solder.

Any offerings are appreciated.

Mike

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Ron_Vella
.333 member


Reged: 29/04/05
Posts: 432
Loc: Oshawa, Ontario, Canada
Re: New Guy, building first double [Re: Alasgun]
      #212173 - 06/07/12 11:36 AM

Mike,
I've always used Hi-Force solder and the apropriate flux, both from Brownells. 8 or 10 times the strength of tin/lead solder. I've never had a joint done with it let go.

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alexbeer
.333 member


Reged: 10/04/08
Posts: 389
Loc: Tasmania, Australia
Re: New Guy, building first double [Re: Alasgun]
      #212181 - 06/07/12 06:46 PM

Hello Mike,

Welcome aboard.

Lots of skill and experience to be gleaned from this site - for everybody.

Like Ron, I like and use the Hi-Force 44 as well.

Get that initial fit of the parts to be soldered together right in the first place and the strength of the joint will be exceptional. Initial fit is critical to the integrity of the joint.

Another thing too, we love to see build progress photo's along the way of whatever you are building

Best
ALEX

--------------------

Details matter!

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duckdog28
.224 member


Reged: 06/07/12
Posts: 3
Loc: Elizabeth, CO
Re: New Guy, building first double [Re: alexbeer]
      #212530 - 11/07/12 11:24 PM

Mike,
Ellis's book is meant as a guide, not a step by step, as he says in the book. If you've been a machinist for 40+ yrs, it might be a little vague. For those of us who are new to machining and building doubles, I think it is great to give you a place to start.

He(Ellis) is a member of this forum and is very helpful. When you get to soldering ribs and such, I'm sure he'd be happy to help. Just shoot him a PM or an email.

Good luck and enjoy

Ryan Walter

Edited by duckdog28 (11/07/12 11:48 PM)

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26992
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: New Guy, building first double [Re: duckdog28]
      #212537 - 12/07/12 12:01 AM

Dad always taught us that a proper solder joint, was a 1 mil. bond to allow the solder to do it's job.

Using low temp silver solder, I've never had a sight ramp fail. With high temp, well, it might just as well be part of the barrel.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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DBLGN
.224 member


Reged: 16/10/07
Posts: 46
Loc: Colorado, USA
Re: New Guy, building first double [Re: Alasgun]
      #212623 - 14/07/12 12:56 AM

Quote:

I recently bought the Brown book "Building double rifles on shotgun actions" and was very dissapointed in it's lack of content.




Since I am working on a 3rd edition of the book (not due out for 1.5 - 2 years, maybe longer, now that I am starting a new full time job), I am very curious what you would like to see in the way of better content. Anything that I can do to make the book better and more helpful, is better for all of us. Don't tie up this thread with your comments, but feel free to PM me. I am always open to constructive comments.


Quote:

I am looking for some ideas (from someone who's done this)as to solder type for the 1/4 rib, sling swivel attachment point and the front sight.



I use Brownell's Force 44 (in general, when I refer to silver solder or low temp silver solder, this is what I mean) for attaching the forend hook (although this is still usually TIG welded in place) 1/4-rib, sling mount (this is frequently welded as well), and front sight. I then use either 95/5 or 50/50 lead solder for for the mid-rib and underribs (when I mention "soft" solder, this is what I am talking about).

Ellis

--------------------
DBLGN

Edited by DBLGN (14/07/12 12:58 AM)

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Alasgun
.224 member


Reged: 24/12/10
Posts: 7
Loc: Alaska U.S.A
Re: New Guy, building first double [Re: DBLGN]
      #212661 - 14/07/12 11:12 AM

Looks like it may end as quickly as it started! (my first post) My goal was to gather some useful ideas from the forum members not start a range war with some local hero.

I appreciate the first couple responses and agree the hi-force would probably work fine IF BROWNELLS WOULD SEND IT TO ALASKA. That's the real problem, not that I'm way off the grid or anything; it's just one of those post 9/11 hazard things.
So, my next course of action was to solicite ideas from forum members in the hopes of "discovering" something I can but locally, something with similar strength or better than the hi force.

I'm still looking for those tidbits!

Mike

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ruffcountry
.300 member


Reged: 06/01/09
Posts: 210
Loc: usa
Re: New Guy, building first double [Re: Alasgun]
      #212664 - 14/07/12 02:03 PM



--------------------
Double Rifle Shooters Society

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Alasgun
.224 member


Reged: 24/12/10
Posts: 7
Loc: Alaska U.S.A
Re: New Guy, building first double [Re: ruffcountry]
      #212717 - 15/07/12 09:50 AM

I'm a little unsure what the implication is with the previous post, but I'm not interested in a "more of the same forum", you guys can find someone else to jerk around.

Oh, by the way; back in 1970, Phu-Loi Viet Nam, while serving with the 128th assult helicopter co we were known as "the gunslingers" and ol sam was our symbol!

Mike

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DBLGN
.224 member


Reged: 16/10/07
Posts: 46
Loc: Colorado, USA
Re: New Guy, building first double [Re: Alasgun]
      #212720 - 15/07/12 10:13 AM

Quote:

Looks like it may end as quickly as it started! (my first post) My goal was to gather some useful ideas from the forum members not start a range war with some local hero.




Mike,
Don't run off on my account. I am certainly not offended and was serious about getting your input on what is needed in the book - always looking for ways to improve the content. You certainly have not started any kind of war with me. I am certainly no "hero", I am just an ordinary guy (it is kind of nice that some folks feel compelled to "defend" me though ). Like you, I am not sure what to think of the post with "ole Sam", but I would ignore it and go on. I think you will find most of guys here are friendly and helpful, if you give them a chance.

Sorry I was not more helpful with the soldering issue. I did not understand what you were up against.

Ellis

--------------------
DBLGN

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Mauser416
.300 member


Reged: 20/06/07
Posts: 162
Loc: Corpus Christi, Texas
Re: New Guy, building first double [Re: Alasgun]
      #212724 - 15/07/12 12:16 PM

Amen to that alexbeer. I to would like to see some photos of the work that has been done to date. Have you settled on the caliber yet Alasgun?

Eric

--------------------
There is nothing worse in this world than an enslaved man who naively believes himself free, except, perhaps, trying to explain to that same man his predicament.

Edited by Mauser416 (15/07/12 12:17 PM)

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ruffcountry
.300 member


Reged: 06/01/09
Posts: 210
Loc: usa
Re: New Guy, building first double [Re: Alasgun]
      #212733 - 15/07/12 02:35 PM

Dear sir , please accept my sincere thank you for your service .

Might I suggest that "ole Sam " would be an appropriate avatar for an " ole gunslinger " such as yourself .

Peace

--------------------
Double Rifle Shooters Society

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Birdhunter50
.375 member


Reged: 03/06/07
Posts: 815
Loc: Iowa,U.S.A.
Re: New Guy, building first double [Re: Alasgun]
      #212915 - 17/07/12 09:19 PM

Mike,
First off, Brownells Hi Force 44 is nothing more than 95% tin and 5% silver, you should be able to find something locally. You will need to find a good soldering flux that will work with it, though. That may be the part that Brownells won't send airmail. You can use rosen core electical solder for the ribs but I would not want to use it for attaching forend brackets or spacers.
Ellis Brown is telling you straight, he is a nice guy and was just trying to help you out. If you are serious about needing the help of this group, it might not hurt you to be just a little humble till you get the lay of the land. We are all willing to help out a first timer, but snide comments are best left out of our discussions.
I wish you well on your project, and if you need further help you can contact me by P.M. and I will try to answer any questions that you might have. As an after thought, I was told by a man who knows these things, that the British gunsmiths use straight tin to put on ribs and all the rest of it, fluxed on with powdered rosen put on by pinching of a little of it between their finger and thumb and sprinkling it on the hot metal. Bob H.

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