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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Lee Speed Forum & Archive
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Nick_Adams
.300 member


Reged: 20/12/03
Posts: 148
Loc: USA
Army-Navy Coop Lee Speed Sporter
      #208633 - 20/05/12 06:48 AM



Saw this one recently ...

http://www.gunsinternational.com/Army-Navy-Co-op-Lee-Speed-Enfield-303-BRIT.cfm?gun_id=100250041

Looked in good shape. No bolt or "tang" safety, though. It appears to operate off the Metford bolt half-cock design.

Bore actually was very nice, as was the wood. Sights were in great shape, nothing loose there. A few dings appear here and there, mostly wear marks and some loss of bluing.

There were no obvious signs of malicious handling, nor bubba-ing of any sort.

What can you tell me about this one? Comments on pricing?

Thanks!

--------------------
________________________________

Remember ...

"Only accurate rifles are interesting."

.300 H&H.


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jc5
.300 member


Reged: 10/10/07
Posts: 162
Loc: West Coast, USA
Re: Army-Navy Coop Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Nick_Adams]
      #208647 - 20/05/12 11:01 AM

Did you happen to copy any of the numbers or markings?

--------------------
Researching Lee Speeds and all commercial Lee Enfields. If you have data to share or questions, please send me a PM.

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Nick_Adams
.300 member


Reged: 20/12/03
Posts: 148
Loc: USA
Re: Army-Navy Coop Lee Speed Sporter [Re: jc5]
      #208649 - 20/05/12 11:40 AM

Some (from memory), although if you click on that first link and go thru the photos, some markings are quite visible.

Here's the Cabela's link:

http://www.cabelas.com/dundee-gun-library-army-navy-co-op-lee-speed-enfield-303-brit.shtml

It had Army Navy Coop, IRRC, engraved on it. Quite a bit of scroll work. "Cordite only" is engraved on the top flat of the receiver just forward of the breach. This appears to be the "no external safety" Mk II Metford action.

How did a hunter engage that half-cock safety after chambering a round while hunting game? Anyone know?

Thanks!

--------------------
________________________________

Remember ...

"Only accurate rifles are interesting."

.300 H&H.


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Sarg
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Reged: 20/01/07
Posts: 1365
Loc: Nil
Re: Army-Navy Coop Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Nick_Adams]
      #208650 - 20/05/12 12:46 PM

A couple of mine are like that, let down the firing pin & pull cocking piece one click out, then pull full out for full cock !

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2152hq
.300 member


Reged: 20/05/12
Posts: 126
Loc: USA
Re: Army-Navy Coop Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Sarg]
      #208671 - 21/05/12 02:42 AM

That particular rifle was owned by me.
I sold it at an OGCA (Ohio Gun Collectors Assn) show to a buyer/rep from Cabellas the summer before last.
The wood has been refreshed/refinished. Checkering recut.
Perhaps some of the blue 'enhanced' but that's harder to tell from the pics. It was quite worn when I sold it but a sound rifle.
Metford cocking piece, orig 10shot mag w/engraved border matching the receiver engraving.
Co-Op number on the guard and A/N Co-Op on the dust cover.

I recognize the home made 2 link chain & stud on the mag/trigger guard. It's one I placed on it just before I put it up for sale. More of a safe guard to keep the mag from disappearing from the rifle during a gun show that an attempt to deceive. Though the originals did have such a small link in place usually.

The bore was VG as I recall, though worn in the throat I think.
IIRC the Headspace with commercial 303 gauge was at the end of the No-Go range or just past it. I'd have them check it before purchase to be sure.
Though it can be simply overcome by reloading practices, it's a good buyers chip to play if in fact it is on the lengthy side.

I think I have a pic though rather poor quality of the rifle yet on my computer. It won't show much but if I can locate it, I'll post it.
I may have some pics of the internal pieces too as I took some to show the matching numbers and assembly numbers.

They're working a rather small margin for a Cabellas gun,,,with what they paid for it plus any work put into it and their asking price.

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Nick_Adams
.300 member


Reged: 20/12/03
Posts: 148
Loc: USA
Re: Army-Navy Coop Lee Speed Sporter [Re: 2152hq]
      #208678 - 21/05/12 06:26 AM

Quote:

That particular rifle was owned by me.
I sold it at an OGCA (Ohio Gun Collectors Assn) show to a buyer/rep from Cabellas the summer before last.
The wood has been refreshed/refinished. Checkering recut.
Perhaps some of the blue 'enhanced' but that's harder to tell from the pics. It was quite worn when I sold it but a sound rifle.
Metford cocking piece, orig 10shot mag w/engraved border matching the receiver engraving.
Co-Op number on the guard and A/N Co-Op on the dust cover.

I recognize the home made 2 link chain & stud on the mag/trigger guard. It's one I placed on it just before I put it up for sale. More of a safe guard to keep the mag from disappearing from the rifle during a gun show that an attempt to deceive. Though the originals did have such a small link in place usually.

The bore was VG as I recall, though worn in the throat I think.
IIRC the Headspace with commercial 303 gauge was at the end of the No-Go range or just past it. I'd have them check it before purchase to be sure.
Though it can be simply overcome by reloading practices, it's a good buyers chip to play if in fact it is on the lengthy side.

I think I have a pic though rather poor quality of the rifle yet on my computer. It won't show much but if I can locate it, I'll post it.
I may have some pics of the internal pieces too as I took some to show the matching numbers and assembly numbers.

They're working a rather small margin for a Cabellas gun,,,with what they paid for it plus any work put into it and their asking price.



Yes, your description matches my observations. Thanks for that additional info!

I was looking to shoot it, as well as to "collect" it. I have other Brit rifles and two Webley pistols.

How does/did this one shoot? Accuracy-wise, would reloading cast bullets be preferable to jacketed? Or would it shoot decently w/ either.

Yes, any additional pics would be appreciated.

--------------------
________________________________

Remember ...

"Only accurate rifles are interesting."

.300 H&H.


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Nick_Adams
.300 member


Reged: 20/12/03
Posts: 148
Loc: USA
Re: Army-Navy Coop Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Sarg]
      #208679 - 21/05/12 06:39 AM

Quote:

A couple of mine are like that, let down the firing pin & pull cocking piece one click out, then pull full out for full cock !



Maybe I wasn't clear.

Once the hunter loaded a live round into the chamber from the mag by working the bolt, how did he (manually) set the bolt on half-cock?

Thanks.

--------------------
________________________________

Remember ...

"Only accurate rifles are interesting."

.300 H&H.


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Sarg
.400 member


Reged: 20/01/07
Posts: 1365
Loc: Nil
Re: Army-Navy Coop Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Nick_Adams]
      #208684 - 21/05/12 09:35 AM

Quote:

Quote:

A couple of mine are like that, let down the firing pin & pull cocking piece one click out, then pull full out for full cock !



Maybe I wasn't clear.

Once the hunter loaded a live round into the chamber from the mag by working the bolt, how did he (manually) set the bolt on half-cock?

Thanks.



Ok Nick , Maybe I wasn't clear ?

Once the hunter loaded a live round into the chamber from the mag by working the bolt, he (manually) but his finger on the trigger as he closed the bolt, letting down the firing pin, yes the firing pin is resting on the primer for a short time, till you put it on half cock, this is/was done millions of times with no ADC's !

To be clear it is best to chamber the round with the finger off the trigger, then let it down...gently, after you have stripped the round from the mag & chambered it.

I hope that never came across too smart ass ?

Great info from the former owner to, thank you.

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Nick_Adams
.300 member


Reged: 20/12/03
Posts: 148
Loc: USA
Re: Army-Navy Coop Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Sarg]
      #208685 - 21/05/12 09:49 AM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

A couple of mine are like that, let down the firing pin & pull cocking piece one click out, then pull full out for full cock !



Maybe I wasn't clear.

Once the hunter loaded a live round into the chamber from the mag by working the bolt, how did he (manually) set the bolt on half-cock?

Thanks.



Ok Nick , Maybe I wasn't clear ?

Once the hunter loaded a live round into the chamber from the mag by working the bolt, he (manually) but his finger on the trigger as he closed the bolt, letting down the firing pin, yes the firing pin is resting on the primer for a short time, till you put it on half cock, this is/was done millions of times with no ADC's!

To be clear it is best to chamber the round with the finger off the trigger, then let it down...gently, after you have stripped the round from the mag & chambered it.

I hope that never came across too smart ass ?

Great info from the former owner to, thank you.



Not smart-ass at all, as I too want to avoid an ADC by understanding how it is that you move, or eased down, the bolt to half-cock with a live round chambered.

It's all in the technique ...

--------------------
________________________________

Remember ...

"Only accurate rifles are interesting."

.300 H&H.


Post Extras: Print Post   Remind Me!   Notify Moderator  
2152hq
.300 member


Reged: 20/05/12
Posts: 126
Loc: USA
Re: Army-Navy Coop Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Nick_Adams]
      #208733 - 22/05/12 09:09 AM

Here's the only 2 pics I still have, I'm no photographer (how obvious is that!) These taken in different lighting so the wood tone especially looks different in each.
No mag chain on it one yet, just the stud on the mag body itself.
I put a stud into the existing hole in the trigger plate and placed the 2 link 'chain' on it as I mentioned in the first post.Original (I thought) front sight. I never had the sling hooks for it.

IIRC the rear sight vernier slide was a bit loose when I had it. The magazine had a dent in the right side of the body down low but it didn't bother full mag capacity or feeding. I think you can see the shallow dent in at least one of my pics, and it still shows in the new For Sale listing pics.

I've lost the pics of the internal markings I had taken. I took them with the idea of posting the rifle for sale on the net. But then I sold it at the OGCA Show.
Just going from memory,,it had what I would call an 'assembly' number of 3 digits and was matching on the receiver, barrel and forearm wood. It may also be on the bolt handle along with a ser#.Seems like it was.... One # on the rear side of the handle, the other on the underside but I don't recall which is where.
I don't recall haveing taken the butt stock off so I can't recall a # on the head of it.




I never shot this one very much. Mostly at 50m and with a mix of commercial and some HXP military surplus ammo which is non-corrosive.
These guns seem to beat me up! but I do love them. IIRC it shot about 3" groups for me at that range.
I was going to try cast bullet loads w/light charges. Something I have settled on for most all my centerfire rifles but never got around to it.
I still have a 5shot version Lee Sporter that will get that tried out on her along with another in 350cal(358) that needs some work to bring it around yet.

Hope the info has been helpfull.

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Rule303
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Reged: 05/07/09
Posts: 5061
Loc: Woodford Qld
Re: Army-Navy Coop Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Nick_Adams]
      #208750 - 22/05/12 07:39 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

A couple of mine are like that, let down the firing pin & pull cocking piece one click out, then pull full out for full cock !



Maybe I wasn't clear.

Once the hunter loaded a live round into the chamber from the mag by working the bolt, how did he (manually) set the bolt on half-cock?

Thanks.



Ok Nick , Maybe I wasn't clear ?

Once the hunter loaded a live round into the chamber from the mag by working the bolt, he (manually) but his finger on the trigger as he closed the bolt, letting down the firing pin, yes the firing pin is resting on the primer for a short time, till you put it on half cock, this is/was done millions of times with no ADC's!

To be clear it is best to chamber the round with the finger off the trigger, then let it down...gently, after you have stripped the round from the mag & chambered it.

I hope that never came across too smart ass ?

Great info from the former owner to, thank you.



Not smart-ass at all, as I too want to avoid an ADC by understanding how it is that you move, or eased down, the bolt to half-cock with a live round chambered.

It's all in the technique ...




Nick if I understand you want to know how to put a Lee Speed at the half cock. If they are the same as an SMLE then the way I put SMLE's onto half cock is as folows. Once the bolt has been closed on a live round/empty chamber I hold rifle in my right hand, the end of the firing pin in my left hand, tightly, squeeze the trigger and ease the firing pin forward. The moment the firing pin has moved forward I release the triger. The firing pin is then eased forward till it engages at the half cock position.

I for one do not close a bolt with finger holding the trigger down with a live round in the chamber. Others do but I will not run the risk.

Hope this makes semse

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2152hq
.300 member


Reged: 20/05/12
Posts: 126
Loc: USA
Re: Army-Navy Coop Lee Speed Sporter [Re: Rule303]
      #208783 - 23/05/12 06:01 AM

Rule303's technique is the one I have always used. Chamber the round, then let the striker down to 1/2cock.
So far no problems! My commercial CLLE is set up the same
The 'top hat' style striker heads on these and the early SMLE's make an easy time of it. The late flat sided style on the SMLE not so much so. But on an SMLE, there's a safety to engage to hold the striker off full cock anyway.

One of my other Lee Sporters has the BSA tang safety. It's convenient of course,,but would be more so for me if it didn't operate backwards from what I'm used to using!
It doesn't cam the striker off the sear like the SMLE safety or the LongLee bolt thumb safety, but it's at least as secure as most SxS shotgun safety setups are in blocking the trigger/sear from movement.

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Nick_Adams
.300 member


Reged: 20/12/03
Posts: 148
Loc: USA
Re: Army-Navy Coop Lee Speed Sporter [Re: 2152hq]
      #208785 - 23/05/12 06:41 AM

Just wanted to thank 2152hq and everyone else for their input!

2152hq: I sent you a PM.

--------------------
________________________________

Remember ...

"Only accurate rifles are interesting."

.300 H&H.


Edited by Nick_Adams (23/05/12 06:54 AM)

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