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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mauser Discussion Forum

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Tom_H
.333 member

Reged: 13/04/05
Posts: 336
Loc: Southeast, NY

6.4x54 Mauser Ammunition source?
#207798 - 28/04/12 11:22 PM

I just picked up a rifle in the above caliber and I would like some factory ammo. I know that DWM used to load it but I am unsure if they even exist anymore. Any sources that anyone knows of would be appreciated.

Thanks

Tom

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Carbonation without fermentation is tyranny

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tophet1
.400 member

Reged: 15/09/07
Posts: 1873
Loc: NSW, Australia

Re: 6.4x54 Mauser Ammunition source? [Re: Tom_H]
#207800 - 28/04/12 11:39 PM

A quick Google search:

http://www.buffaloarms.com/Detail.aspx?PROD=158105&CAT=4451

Gunbroker ?

There is probably some Norma cases out there sitting on a distributors shelf.

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lancaster
.470 member

Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9034
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...

Re: 6.4x54 Mauser Ammunition source? [Re: tophet1]
#207802 - 29/04/12 12:02 AM

nooooo, this is the the 6,5x54 mannlicher schönauer, not the same and could not used in a 6,5x54 Mauser Kurz rifle.
I do not remember when and where I had seen this ammo the last time. do not waste you time be waiting start handloading now. iirc, 6,5x57 brass is perfect for making this case.

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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HistoricBore
.300 member

Reged: 28/09/11
Posts: 226
Loc: United Kingdom

Re: 6.4x54 Mauser Ammunition source? [Re: lancaster]
#207803 - 29/04/12 12:20 AM

A friend here in England has one of these very rare 6.5 x 54 K Mausers, and was able to obtain factory brass made by RWS direct from Germany. Use a 120 grain bullet.

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tophet1
.400 member

Reged: 15/09/07
Posts: 1873
Loc: NSW, Australia

Re: 6.4x54 Mauser Ammunition source? [Re: HistoricBore]
#207806 - 29/04/12 12:51 AM

My mistake it was 11:39pm here.

Note to self: engage brain before posting...

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Tentman
.300 member

Reged: 13/06/10
Posts: 128
Loc: Southland, New Zealand

Re: 6.4x54 Mauser Ammunition source? [Re: tophet1]
#207815 - 29/04/12 06:27 AM

Hello Tom

How about posting up some pictures of your rifle, I have a couple of 250 Savage "kurz" and there's something to learn from nearly every picture of these rifles.

Cheers

--------------------
Southland, New Zealand

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Tom_H
.333 member

Reged: 13/04/05
Posts: 336
Loc: Southeast, NY

Re: 6.4x54 Mauser Ammunition source? [Re: Tentman]
#207821 - 29/04/12 09:02 AM

Thanks all for the fast replies regardless of the hour they were posted. As soon as I can get some pix up I will.
It is a manlicher stocked kurtz mauser with a zeis in claw mounts. Only issue is like my other posted mauser project was stored in a barn next to the salt.
Not as bad as the last though, with damage mainly on the barrel. I am looking forward to getting this thing back to respectable condition. As soon as it is warm enough I'll get the tanks cooking and blue them both up.

Tom

--------------------
Carbonation without fermentation is tyranny

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Sarg
.400 member

Reged: 20/01/07
Posts: 1365
Loc: Nil

Re: 6.4x54 Mauser Ammunition source? [Re: Tentman]
#207828 - 29/04/12 10:23 AM

Tentman, I have a beautiful little 6.5X54 Type A Kurz Mauser , express sights & all, it really is a cute little thing, I will try & get pics up one day, will be a long while how ever !

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mckinney
.400 member

Reged: 29/01/09
Posts: 1225
Loc: usa

Re: 6.4x54 Mauser Ammunition source? [Re: Tom_H]
#207858 - 30/04/12 03:16 AM

Tom

You might try connecting with DonS on this forum. He was looking for ammo in this caliber and finally found a few boxes. I also have one of these rifles, early Type B (pre WW1) and I'd like to find some ammo myself. Good luck.

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Tom_H
.333 member

Reged: 13/04/05
Posts: 336
Loc: Southeast, NY

Re: 6.4x54 Mauser Ammunition source? [Re: mckinney]
#207865 - 30/04/12 07:31 AM

Here are some shots. Sorry about the resolution but they should give an idea what it is and the condition.
the Whole deal (with cat for scale)

The neglected barrel

And yes, that is a plaque in the stock.

Should turn out nicely.

Tom

--------------------
Carbonation without fermentation is tyranny

Edited by CptCurl (26/05/12 09:31 AM)

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CommandCar
.333 member

Reged: 18/09/10
Posts: 292
Loc: East Coast, USA

Re: 6.4x54 Mauser Ammunition source? [Re: Tom_H]
#207891 - 30/04/12 11:06 PM

vintage stuff - http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=284047979

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dons
.333 member

Reged: 18/08/07
Posts: 431
Loc: Essex

Re: 6.4x54 Mauser Ammunition source? [Re: CommandCar]
#207894 - 01/05/12 01:12 AM

Just to be clear, the above ammo is 6.5x58 (Portuguese), which is very different from 6.5x54 Mauser.

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kuduae
.400 member

Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1792
Loc: middle of Germany

Re: 6.4x54 Mauser Ammunition source? [Re: dons]
#207923 - 01/05/12 08:50 PM

The dedication plate may be translated:" At the 25 year anniversary of service on October 15, 1926, dedicated by the leading officials of the Duerkopp factories plc." At that time Duerkopp in Bielefeld was a leading German bicycle and sewing machine manufacturer. The company still exists as a maker of industrial sewing machines, see: http://www.duerkopp-adler.com/de/index.html

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kuduae
.400 member

Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1792
Loc: middle of Germany

Re: 6.4x54 Mauser Ammunition source? [Re: kuduae]
#207924 - 01/05/12 09:07 PM

The 6.5x54 Mauser is long since out of print. DWM closed down in 1972. RWS did not list it post-WW2. So the only reliable option is handloading. Cases may be formed from any standard 30-06 base brass like 6.5x57, 8x57 and so on. Use .264" 120-140 gr bullets. Remeber, the 6.5x54 Mauser cartridge was intended as a smallgame, up to roebuck number only. Standard DWM factory ballistics were a 127gr jacketed bullet at 2700 fps.

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Tom_H
.333 member

Reged: 13/04/05
Posts: 336
Loc: Southeast, NY

Re: 6.4x54 Mauser Ammunition source? [Re: kuduae]
#207937 - 02/05/12 08:04 AM

Thank you Kuduae

So who was the rifle a gift to? I used Google translate and thought that it was to one of the officers of the company.

As far as 127grains at 2700, that sounds about ideal. The only data that I saw was for a 120gr at 2500. Fine also for deer and bear in this area. The dies are reasonable from CH4D and they do have them listed.
Thank you all for the help with this one. It would be nice to take it to the woods this coming winter.
Tom

--------------------
Carbonation without fermentation is tyranny

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lancaster
.470 member

Reged: 06/05/08
Posts: 9034
Loc: There's a lighthouse in the mi...

Re: 6.4x54 Mauser Ammunition source? [Re: Tom_H]
#208673 - 21/05/12 04:23 AM

never say never
ok its only a ten rounds box
http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=3865260

--------------------
Norwegian hunter misses moose, shoots man on toilet
.
bringing civilisation to the barbarians

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m4220
.300 member

Reged: 04/02/07
Posts: 234
Loc: wa

Re: 6.4x54 Mauser Ammunition source? [Re: lancaster]
#208674 - 21/05/12 04:31 AM

Except, it states No International shipping

m4220

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kuduae
.400 member

Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1792
Loc: middle of Germany

Re: 6.4x54 Mauser Ammunition source? [Re: Tom_H]
#208675 - 21/05/12 05:01 AM

Quote:

So who was the rifle a gift to?
Tom

No idea! Maybe you can contact Dürkopp and ask them about the date and who had the 25th anniversary then? Must have been a rather important person for the company.

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Tom_H
.333 member

Reged: 13/04/05
Posts: 336
Loc: Southeast, NY

Re: 6.4x54 Mauser Ammunition source? [Re: kuduae]
#208686 - 21/05/12 12:23 PM

Hello Kuduae.

It seemed as if these may have been given to a group of people because if it was only one, wouldn't it have been more personal and have their actual name?

Tom

--------------------
Carbonation without fermentation is tyranny

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kuduae
.400 member

Reged: 13/01/10
Posts: 1792
Loc: middle of Germany

Re: 6.4x54 Mauser Ammunition source? [Re: Tom_H]
#208708 - 21/05/12 10:12 PM

Tom, I read it the other way around: the rifle was given by the group of higher-ranking company officials to one person who had worked for the company for 25 years Oct.26, 1926. That unnamed person, who started working for Dürkopp in 1901, was certainly a high-ranking manager. As I wrote, you may email Dürkopp-Adler. Maybe they have a "company historian", who can answer the question. Certainly they have English-speaking staff, as they are providing the international market. Here is the link to their history in English: http://www.duerkopp-adler.com/en/main/company/history.html

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26998
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: 6.4x54 Mauser Ammunition source? [Re: kuduae]
#208724 - 22/05/12 06:09 AM

Factory ammo listed as 119gr. at 2,362fps in COTW and seems to me, that was the same as the DWM ammo shot by Cliff. Hunter, owner and proprieter of Hunter's Sporting Goods, Vancouver B.C.(close to Knight St. on Kingsway Ave.) in the early 1970's in his little 6.5x54 Mauser.

I remember looking at his ammo and thinking it was grossly underloaded, compared to what the round could do.

It appeared to have around a 20 degree shoulder, longer neck than .260 Rem, and therefore only slighlty less capacity (longer) and would probably do close to 3,000fps with the 120gr. with careful load development with modern powders. Something as fast as H4895 or Reloader #15 or even a slower one like Reloader #19 might do that trick. perfectly.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Tom_H
.333 member

Reged: 13/04/05
Posts: 336
Loc: Southeast, NY

Re: 6.4x54 Mauser Ammunition source? [Re: kuduae]
#208736 - 22/05/12 09:55 AM

Kuduae, thank you again. As I have no handle on German whatsoever, I will defer to you on this one. I will certainly write Durkopp as it would be interesting to see what they come up with .

Daryl, I saw the same data as you and I also saw the later DWM loading with a 129 at much higher velocity. My only hesitation is that the action is a small ring with the front ring cut for a scope base. There is metal at the bottom of the dovetail although I doubt that there is much of it.

I have a feeling that held to around 45k, it should be an adequate deer rifle. As it is, that load is somewhat below what the 250-3000 will do with the same weight bullet. Possibly loaded with one of the 4350s I can get it up to 2600 which would be about right.

Tom

--------------------
Carbonation without fermentation is tyranny

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DarylS
.700 member

Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26998
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...

Re: 6.4x54 Mauser Ammunition source? [Re: Tom_H]
#208738 - 22/05/12 12:39 PM

The .250/3000 is a good analagy. The 6.5x54, even when held to lower pressures due to the dovetailed ring, will exceed that smaller case's, factory 53,000PSI level ballistics.

They would be a reasonable level to use for loading approximations + perhaps 100 to 150fps or so for the larger diameter bullet and greater case capacity.

--------------------
Daryl

"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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