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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Shotguns
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375Brno
.333 member


Reged: 18/10/05
Posts: 354
Loc: Brisbane, Australia
Steel shot in old english shotgun
      #207730 - 27/04/12 09:08 AM

Hi
I am looking around for an old English shotgun. How can I tell whether it will take steel shot? If it is a proof mark can someone tell me what to look for.
Also if I cannot use steel shot what are the alternatives to lead that could be used.
Regards
Rick

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: Steel shot in old english shotgun [Re: 375Brno]
      #207731 - 27/04/12 09:38 AM


Alternatives - Bismuth and a few others. I think "Hevi shot"
is another but you'll have to check.


Re proof marks, it will have been re proofed and shown as proofed for steel shot.

I find it unlikely that it will have been proofed for steel if an old english gun. The expense of sending it back to the UK or Europe is prohibitive unless it is well worth it.

Depending on the gun, better to take out the chokes
- others have done this.

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Mike_Bailey
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Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 2289
Loc: GB
Re: Steel shot in old english shotgun [Re: 500Nitro]
      #207745 - 27/04/12 05:54 PM

Nothing English pre 1970´s will be good with steel 375Brno (unless it has been rebarreled for steel shot since), you can use hevi shot, bismuth or tungsten but they are all a bit pricey !! best

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375Brno
.333 member


Reged: 18/10/05
Posts: 354
Loc: Brisbane, Australia
Re: Steel shot in old english shotgun [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #207746 - 27/04/12 06:02 PM

500 & Mike
Thanks for that. Useful information as always.
Regards
Rick

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leapin
.224 member


Reged: 17/01/12
Posts: 23
Loc: Vic, Aust
Re: Steel shot in old english shotgun [Re: 375Brno]
      #207749 - 27/04/12 07:17 PM

375Brno, I had the Father In Laws Greener SxS shotgun opened up to shoot steel shot had the forcing cones lengthened from 3/8" to 3"inchs long the choke's I had opened up to Modified and Modified (1/2 choke) been shooting it all this duck season with no problem's at all. The gun is rated at 3 1/4 ton / square inch. The only cryterior that the gunsmith was concered about was that the bores had to be greater diameter than .729 thou of a inch. Pretty much got sick of steppin over it in the gun room and not using it.

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Phillip
.300 member


Reged: 31/05/10
Posts: 174
Loc: North Carolina
Re: Steel shot in old english shotgun [Re: leapin]
      #207764 - 28/04/12 05:58 AM

There is more to it than making the shells fit and fire. The steel shot of today is very high pressure and all magnum loads. Some of these guns are 75 plus years old and never built for that type of shooting. You will see busted wood and barrels off face if fed a steady diet of this stuff. Steel stot has a very "snappy" recoil which does not suit a SXS shotgun.There are plenty of guns out there to shoot this crap in and they will have replacable barrels. I shoot an 85 year old W.J.Jeffrey and and A.H.Fox,never will see that stuff in my tubes.

Edited by Phillip (28/04/12 06:02 AM)

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Grenadier
.375 member


Reged: 20/02/08
Posts: 570
Loc: North of the Columbia, USA
Re: Steel shot in old english shotgun [Re: Phillip]
      #207792 - 28/04/12 06:13 PM

Steel shot in old English shotgun - bad juju

--------------------
~

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375Brno
.333 member


Reged: 18/10/05
Posts: 354
Loc: Brisbane, Australia
Re: Steel shot in old english shotgun [Re: Grenadier]
      #207793 - 28/04/12 06:27 PM

Thanks everyone. I am getting message.
I will just stick to lead or one of the other variations mentioned in the forum pages.
Regards
Rick

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375Brno
.333 member


Reged: 18/10/05
Posts: 354
Loc: Brisbane, Australia
Re: Steel shot in old english shotgun [Re: 375Brno]
      #207925 - 01/05/12 09:09 PM

Having decided that I will be using lead I did some follow up work.

Had a frustrating day trying to buy 2 1/2 inch shotgun shells. Could not find any in a few shops I tried in Brisbane so contacted Beretta Australia and yes they have however I would have to buy via a dealer - understand that. Back to one of the gunshops and yes can get however you have to buy a pallet of them!! What! - so back to Beretta asking about the pallet deal and because the gunshop does not buy ammo from Beretta they could not be included in a normal ammo shipment so would be a special consignment with just my pallet of shells. 25,000 shells I think the guy said.

Learning now, so asked the Beretta guy to tell me who in Brisbane they regularly ship to. Turns out that noboby in Brisbane buys on a regular basis except the Brisbane Gun Club (ISSF, DTL, and Skeet). Some of their ISSF guys like to shoot quality ammo it turns out. Getting somewhere except that they are out of stock of the normal stuff that the BGC buy.

Looks as if I will be digging out Dad's old shotshell press and getting that article from Guns & Game where they explained how to modify a press to produce 2 1/2 shells. Any ideas of where to get hulls?

Frustrating but still fun.

Rick

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27721
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Steel shot in old english shotgun [Re: 375Brno]
      #207928 - 02/05/12 01:06 AM

Are you wanting only paper or willing to use plastic hulls.

If plastics are OK, get them from a trap club.

Around here, very few trap shooters load their own ammo any more due to the cost of shot and powder - it is not cost effective nowadays. They pretty much all shoot factory trap loads and the club now has to pay to have the empties hauled away or do it themselves. Since many are normal trap shooters, they are 'above' such meaninless 'work'. I get all I need or the brand I want (AA), once fired and free. If that isn't a possibility for you, any gun shop that sells components, can get empty hulls for you. You merely need to shorten them yourself.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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GroovyMike
.300 member


Reged: 07/04/09
Posts: 229
Loc: NY
Re: Steel shot in old english shotgun [Re: DarylS]
      #207929 - 02/05/12 01:14 AM

I don't think you can even get 2 1/2 inch shells in the US. I have never seen them. But 2 3/4 inch are common. It is increasingly rare to find a 2 1/2 inch gun that has not already been opened up for 2 3/4 inch here.

--------------------
Delight yourself in the Lord and He will give you the desires of your heart. Psalm 37:4

Edited by GroovyMike (02/05/12 01:15 AM)

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Mike_Bailey
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Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 2289
Loc: GB
Re: Steel shot in old english shotgun [Re: GroovyMike]
      #207933 - 02/05/12 03:28 AM

375Brno, I didn´t realise it was so hard to get 2 1/2 " shells there (or in USA for that matter) ?? What sort of value is the gun you are using ? If it is not a top end name but in good condition it is a realatievely easy job to take the chambers out to 2 3/4". It won´t be possible to sell it in UK as it will be out of proof, do you have a proof house in Oz ?? You need a GOOD gunsmith to do this and to know the barrels are OK but if they are, this would be a far cheaper route though if you are going to shoot a pallet or so, why bother ! best, Mike

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27721
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: Steel shot in old english shotgun [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #207941 - 02/05/12 11:05 AM

The "Good" gunsmith idea is a good one. I've seen pictures of cross sections of early breechloaders opened to 2 3/4", which leaves a too-thin area in the chamber where the early gun outside taper came in towards the bore. That extra 1/4" in length made a big difference - it showed.

It is easy to shorten 2 3/4" to 2 1/2". Roll crimp heads are available for dril press or hand drill operation.
Lyman used to make them and Will Bilozer of Alberta makes one for sure.

If you don't handload - there's a lot of rounds in a pallet.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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375Brno
.333 member


Reged: 18/10/05
Posts: 354
Loc: Brisbane, Australia
Re: Steel shot in old english shotgun [Re: DarylS]
      #207950 - 02/05/12 08:30 PM

Mike & co

It is a fairly nice Greener SxS, So not a high end H&H or Purdey however good enough for me. I figure it has made it this far in pretty good nick so I do not want to mess with it. The 2 1/2 inch shells make it a bit complicated however nothing that cannot be worked around.I know how to get them as long as I can wait for an order from Brisbane and I can also go down the handload route given the advice from others above. I will probably do both so I have some contingency especially as has been pointed out there are probably thousands of hulls around for the taking albeit 2 3/4 which will have to be shortened.
Regards
Rick

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Mike_Bailey
.400 member


Reged: 26/02/07
Posts: 2289
Loc: GB
Re: Steel shot in old english shotgun [Re: 375Brno]
      #207992 - 03/05/12 04:45 PM

Better off waiting for the 2 1/2" 375Brno, shame to cut the old girl up unneccesarily, best

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granhaven
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Reged: 30/12/08
Posts: 44
Loc: Denmark
Re: Steel shot in old english shotgun [Re: Mike_Bailey]
      #208013 - 03/05/12 11:19 PM

375Brno

There was a lot of fuzz in Denmark when there was a general ban on lead for Hunting and clays. However the last few years have lead to better and cheaper alternatives. Steel shot is used for clay targets, and todays ammunition does not have a higher pressure than the older days lead carthridges.

I myself shoot a Gebruder Merkel from 1954 in caliber 16 with fixed shokes for skeet. The shokes are untuched 3/4 and full i think. My best result this year was 117/125 with this gun and a 26 gramms steel load. I shoot quite a lot and have put more than 10.000 rounds of steel thru the old Merkel and there are no signs on the barrels.

A fellow skeet shooter got an old english fine shotgun this year with Damascus barrels, a fenomenal balance and the old english lady is fed with 65 mm steel shot without any protests. According to the expert gunmaker www.plguns.dk importing the gun from England there is no problem whatsoever doing that. also a W. Ewans side by side originally with 65 mm chambers has been rebored to 70 mm chambers and is shooting fine with ordinary steel 24 grams.

What i wouldent do is to use some of the american Magnum loads from iex Remington with large shot sizes in a gun with more than 1/4 choke. Anyway i find these loads unpleasent to shoot.

best regards, Peter Frost Hørlyck

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