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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Building Double Rifles & Gunsmithing
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Birdhunter50
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Reged: 03/06/07
Posts: 815
Loc: Iowa,U.S.A.
Re: 577 light [Re: 500Nitro]
      #205356 - 18/03/12 12:37 AM

500Nitro,
Thanks for the good advice. I guess I didn't state my idea properly, what I intended to say was that we wanted to chamber the gun with the three inch reamer, and use the tree inch shells as is, but load them up using some filler to about the same loading as the 2 3/4 inch loading. I went back and changed the wording. I do know what you are talking about with the chamber being eroded.
Do you see any problems with this method? I would still mark it and proof it for the 2 3/4 inch loading. If I load the 650 grain bullets in the service loads, but use some 750 grain bullets over the standard powder charge to proof it, that will give me about 115% of the the service load for pressure, or 15% over the service load. Two of those fired down each barrel should be sufficient to proof it. Do you agree with that method? Bob

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Birdhunter50
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Reged: 03/06/07
Posts: 815
Loc: Iowa,U.S.A.
Re: 577 light [Re: doubleriflejack]
      #205358 - 18/03/12 01:02 AM

Doubleriflejack,

Thanks for the good advice. I am familiar with Ellis Brown's work on converting doubles, I have both copies of his book and have been corrisponding with him. I have not yet asked him about this project because he is terribly busy right now. I have talked this over with several people and I intend to get more input from Marrakai about barrels sizes and weights and loadings. As I said, this is all new territory for me, and quite a bit larger in size than anything I have done before.

I am still in the planning stages, we have the donor gun and the barrels are ordered but they won't be here till some time in April. I am not sure about the final service load yet but we are talking about the Black Powder Express loading using a 650 grain bullet at 1650 to 1800 FPS. I have my doubts that anything hit on this coninent with a 650 grain bullet going 1650 is going to complain much. 1800 might be somewhat better, but only if I can shoot it well and my shoulder holds up.

I dislocated it two years ago by falling on the ice while deer hunting with one of my doubles. I managed to save the gun from any damage but my shoulder took all the shock of the fall. My doctor told me that I had knocked a piece off my rotor cuff and that after it quit hurting, I should just go on using it and eventually the muscles would tighten it back up. That worked to a degree but the thing still is not totally right yet. I don't baby it any, but I don't want it going back out again either.

I have been quite surprised by the number of my friends who have volunteered to help me regulate this piece when it is finished up. I may actually recruit a couple of them during the early stages of the regulation process. They not only will have to be tough enough but they will need to be very accurate in the shooting in order to get this done properly. Bob

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drbd
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Reged: 29/11/11
Posts: 43
Loc: belgium
Re: 577 light [Re: Sarg]
      #205365 - 18/03/12 02:41 AM

Pardon my ignorance- but what is 'backer foam/rod'....
Does anyone on the forum have reloading data for the 577 3" to approach 2 3/4 performance (being a 650 g jacketed bullet at 1650-1800 fps ). I think this load would still be feasible in a Ruger N1 action...

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tinker
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Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: 577 light [Re: drbd]
      #205369 - 18/03/12 03:31 AM

drbd-


Foam backer rod is a building material used in the process of caulking joints or gaps, typically around windows.
One major US supplier of this kind of product is Sika Corporation.

Some guys use pieces of this foam rod as a case-filler instead of Dacron fibers or wool felt wads.
It is similar to the Kynoch product line of foam case filler material.

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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drbd
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Reged: 29/11/11
Posts: 43
Loc: belgium
Re: 577 light [Re: tinker]
      #205431 - 18/03/12 09:36 PM

thanks Tinker!

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CptCurlAdministrator
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Reged: 01/05/04
Posts: 5284
Loc: Fincastle, Botetourt County, V...
Re: 577 light [Re: Sarg]
      #205435 - 18/03/12 10:51 PM

Marrakai uses felt wads in his .577 light nitro. I also have used felt successfully. The 24 ga. size works fine. Now I use 5/8" backer rod, which works great.

Curl

--------------------
RoscoeStephenson.com

YOUR DOUBLE RIFLE IS YOUR BEST FRIEND.



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doubleriflejack
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Reged: 11/11/07
Posts: 352
Loc: Oregon, U.S.A.
Re: 577 light [Re: Birdhunter50]
      #205568 - 20/03/12 06:08 AM

Birdhunter50,
I now have my reference material at hand, so will try to answer your additional questions you posed:

The breach pressures indicated below are all in British LONG TONS. One Long Ton = 2240 pounds.

.577 3" double rifle data that may interest you:

Bell's Greener rifle, made in 1900. Pictured and written about in DGJ, it was .577 Light Nitro, original factory load was 80 grains cordite, 650 grain bullet. Overall rifle weight 11 lbs, 3 oz.

A British hammer .577 3" had engraved on rifle 75 gr. cordite, 650 gr. bullet, 1850 fps. Rifle overall weight 12.5 lbs. John Taylor said this was load (transitional load) developed to replace black powder.

On flats of Jeffery .577 3 1/4" 177 gr. (black) 650 gr. bullet. Rifle weighed 11 lbs, 5 oz.

Loads for .577 black and light nitro:

Charles Lancaster (London) catalog (and rifle I own): .577 3" 170 gr. black (nitro for black about 68 gr. IMR 4198, 650 gr. bullet.

ICI 1926 catalog:

.577 3" 90 gr. cordite, 650 gr. bullet, 1950 fps.

Nobel 1925 catalog:

.577 3" nitro for black powder, 75 gr. smokeless (not shown as cordite), 650 gr. bullet, 1800 fps.

Kynoch catalog (1902-1903):

.577 3" 560 gr. bullet, 65+ gr. charge (cordite not shown) 1700 fps---6 long tons.

.577 3" 560 gr. bullet, 75+ gr. charge (cordite not shown) 2000 fps----8 long tons.

.577 3" 650 gr. bullet, 90 gr. charge (cordite not shown) 2000 fps----12 long tons.

Black Powder Loads:

.577 3" 560 gr. bullet, 167 gr. black, 1740 fps----10 long tons.

.577 2 3/4" 160 grains black with 610 gr. bullet---1650--1700 fps.
.577 3" 167 gr. black, with same bullet weight 1650--1700 fps.
.577 3 1/4" 177 gr. black with same bullet weight 1650-1700 fps.

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tinker
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Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: 577 light [Re: doubleriflejack]
      #205570 - 20/03/12 06:25 AM

Wow, 6tons smokeless at 1700fps and 10tons black at 1740fps with the 560gr bullet.

That's a seriously significant difference.
I see the additional 100gr of powder, but that's mad.
I wonder if there is modern back-to-back load testing comparison of similar loads.

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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doubleriflejack
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Reged: 11/11/07
Posts: 352
Loc: Oregon, U.S.A.
Re: 577 light [Re: tinker]
      #205572 - 20/03/12 07:05 AM

I should have mentioned that these were quoted loads from indicated sources, so I have no way of knowing if there are errors on any or all of them. I certainly cannot vouch for anything quoted. I have used some of the nitro for black loads, with no problems, but cannot say if other loads are valid or not.

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Birdhunter50
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Reged: 03/06/07
Posts: 815
Loc: Iowa,U.S.A.
Re: 577 light [Re: doubleriflejack]
      #205582 - 20/03/12 08:57 AM

Doubleriflejack,
Thank you for these loads listed, I never trust to information passed along but when everything looks similar you can bet the info is probably good. I know that Ross Seyfried came up with a formula for converting from black powder to IMR 4198. I feel that that is a good place to start to develop loads for the new gun, reduced amounts at first, of course.
I will be shooting for a finished weight of 10.5 to 11.0 pounds, with a nice Kick-eze pad added, I don't think the recoil will be too punishing. I do have a chronograph and it is pretty accurate, I know this because I checked it against my old Ohler before I sold it. I will try and start 650 grain bullets out at something less than 1650 and move slowly up to get as much as 1800 FPS.or there abouts. I have no doubts about the new gun holding up, if the loose nut behind the buttplate doesn't come unhinged. Bob

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doubleriflejack
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Reged: 11/11/07
Posts: 352
Loc: Oregon, U.S.A.
Re: 577 light [Re: Birdhunter50]
      #205655 - 21/03/12 10:01 AM

I am sure that you are fully aware to never fire proof loads while holding firearm in your arms, for the parts you lose, might be your own.

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Birdhunter50
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Reged: 03/06/07
Posts: 815
Loc: Iowa,U.S.A.
Re: 577 light [Re: doubleriflejack]
      #205782 - 23/03/12 03:57 AM

Da, Ya! I don't guess I'll be holding any gun while it is being proofed. I use a proofing fixture copied from Ellis Brown's book, a long cord, and a big tree to hide behind. I would suggest that everyone else proofing a gun do the same, hiding behind an out building or a fifty five gallon drum is not good enough! Bob

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