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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Paradox and Bore Guns
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casper50
.400 member


Reged: 18/10/07
Posts: 1445
Loc: Alaska
16 bore conical mold
      #202711 - 16/02/12 11:14 PM

What's the diameter range for a 16 bore conical bullet mold? I bought one off of ebay last week and it arrived today. Measurements:

Base = .635
band above base = .683
groove = .612
length approx 1.03

solid brass looks old, has no base plate so it's open on both ends since it's a nose pour.

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tinkerModerator
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: 16 bore conical mold [Re: casper50]
      #202714 - 16/02/12 11:49 PM

16bore should be .663"
Each rifle can be different.

That base could be opened up easily, and any cast conical can/should get lubed and sized before loading anyway.

If it doesn't work out for you I might want it.
Let me know how you do.




Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27000
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 16 bore conical mold [Re: tinker]
      #202730 - 17/02/12 03:03 AM

There is a huge fuzzy area regarding names of calibres in muzzleloading rifles and smoothbores as compared to ctg. shooting rifles. Normally ML's are called by the bore size, while rifles are named for the groove diameter. The Brits and Europeans & sometimes Americans like to do it both ways and that fuzzies things up.(both ways )

Many guns are named by the case or hull they use - paper or brass, therefore a 16 bore brass cased rifle can or may have, if deeply grooved, a tight 13 bore groove diameter and actually shoot a .700" to .705" ball or bullet, as mine does.

The conical mould mentioned produces a bullet that at major diameter, is actually between 15 bore and 14 bore, not 16 bore. 15 bore is .677" and 14 bore is .693".

Casper, are you sure the base isn't .653", not .635"? That sounds small, really small. The .685" "band" sounds way too large for a conical to have a .635" bottom band - that would make the bullet look almost like a boattail, but easier to start in a say 14 1/2 bore muzzleloading rifle, however blowby might be a problem.

Does it have 2 bands of .685" like a paradox bullet and perhaps just a short angled rebated base for that small measurement, like on a modern pistol bullet mould?

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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casper50
.400 member


Reged: 18/10/07
Posts: 1445
Loc: Alaska
Re: 16 bore conical mold [Re: DarylS]
      #202736 - 17/02/12 04:46 AM

I made a cast with cerrosafe this morning.

It doesn't help that it is slightly sprung and needs tweeked to make the halves line up.

bottom band = .674
groove = from .598 to .612


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/150741776147?s...9#ht_614wt_1185

here's the photos on ebay. I can't get them in a format to upload.

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tinkerModerator
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: 16 bore conical mold [Re: casper50]
      #202746 - 17/02/12 07:35 AM

I see what you have there.
Bit of a project eh..?

Have you pondered on a base plug design?





Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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casper50
.400 member


Reged: 18/10/07
Posts: 1445
Loc: Alaska
Re: 16 bore conical mold [Re: tinker]
      #202747 - 17/02/12 07:38 AM

I haven't given it much thought at all yet. I don't understand why both ends are open. There's no indication that there's something missing.

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27000
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 16 bore conical mold [Re: casper50]
      #202815 - 18/02/12 05:00 AM

Since there is no method of holding a base plug against the bottom of the mould blocks, it might have been designed to cast against a flat surface. That will, of course, give poor casting due tothe temperature of whatever surface it is held against.

It does have that rebated rim I thought might be present, however since there isn't an elongated base, it doens't appear to have been made for a plug - although perhaps that is the way that one was made - ie: needs a plug to cast a hollow base.

The general shape of the bullet is so-minnie-like, which would be a mould originally for a cased rifle or double rifle - which would have been included with the round ball mould - according to Forsyth, in the mid 1800's for use n a muzzleloading rifle through into the 1890's for ctg. guns I'd think.

Intersting mould - cheap, and it's a project, for sure.

The diameter of the largest portions of the bullet are the important ones. The base band diameter and the diameter above the grease or crimping groove.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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tinkerModerator
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: 16 bore conical mold [Re: DarylS]
      #202820 - 18/02/12 07:10 AM

It looks almost as if there would be something that would fit around and cap the bullet-base end of the mould.

I can imagine a few different ways to handle the base-plug.




Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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MikeRowe
.333 member


Reged: 23/11/11
Posts: 478
Loc: Arkansas, USA
Re: 16 bore conical mold [Re: tinker]
      #204805 - 09/03/12 01:55 PM

It is possible a clay plug was placed in the mould before filling. I believe some of the early Minie style bullets used the plug to effect obturation in the bore.

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27000
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 16 bore conical mold [Re: MikeRowe]
      #204833 - 10/03/12 03:06 AM

Clay, iron or boxwood - all were used and none were necessary once the US Military thinned the skirt a bit. As far as I know, the plug were inserted after the bullets were cast, but maybe not in this case.

The problem with any of the plugs, is they were being blown through the bullet leaving a ring of lead in the bore, once the bore was fouled a bit.

A mere 60gr. musket powder charge (weak powder) was enough to expand the skirts into the grooves.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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