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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mauser Discussion Forum
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BradW
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Reged: 02/03/09
Posts: 16
Loc: Pacific Northwest
Mauser ID help
      #201859 - 07/02/12 09:42 AM

This is my first post on the mauser site, found it when fooling around with a Gibbs rifle. A friend has this rifle for sale and I'm wondering if someone can help me out and explain the markings and possible manufacturer, I'm also new to picture posting so hope they turn out. It is a 6.3x62 scoped with a Kahles Helia super4. I'd like to buy this rifle and he is asking $1100.00 which I think may be a little high. any thoughts or help would be appreciated.
Thank you. Brad











Edited by CptCurl (13/03/12 10:21 PM)

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500Nitro
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Re: Mauser ID help [Re: BradW]
      #201860 - 07/02/12 10:00 AM


You learn something new every day !!!
Thanks for posting but sorry, can't help you.

I do have a question though.
Isn't 6.3x62 about or the same as 25.06 ?

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pjaln
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Re: Mauser ID help [Re: 500Nitro]
      #201876 - 07/02/12 02:30 PM

are you sure its not a 9.3 x 62 ?? and yes its a little high maybe a 850-950 gun ...paul

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BradW
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Re: Mauser ID help [Re: pjaln]
      #201877 - 07/02/12 02:36 PM

Yes, sorry it is a 9.3x62. Any ideas about the proof marks or the "S" on the receiver? any way to tell what model or who made it?

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justcurious
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Re: Mauser ID help [Re: BradW]
      #201895 - 07/02/12 09:05 PM

Crown over N means German proofmark for nitropowder.

1038 is the date of proofing : October 1938

294 is the number of the barrel (rifle)

9mm 62 : Caliberdesignation for the 9,3x62 cartridge.

ST.m.G 18,3: StahlmantelGeschoss ( = steeljacket bullet) weight 18,3 g

2,5g GBP : Type and weight of powder charge " Blaettchenpulver" that´s flake powder

The " S " on the front receiver ring is sometimes found on rifles of those days. I once had an Oberndorf Mauser 7x57 also marked. Don´t know the significance of that S .

That rifle is a typical example of the cheaper Suhl made rifles that were distributed by various wholesellers worldwide.

Edited by justcurious (07/02/12 09:07 PM)

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Phillip
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Re: Mauser ID help [Re: justcurious]
      #201911 - 08/02/12 02:19 AM

The " S " on the front receiver ring is sometimes found on rifles of those days. I once had an Oberndorf Mauser 7x57 also marked. Don´t know the significance of that S .

I was told one time,the "S" is the Suhl proof mark?

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justcurious
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Re: Mauser ID help [Re: Phillip]
      #201922 - 08/02/12 03:42 AM

Don´t believe that.
The mark of the Suhl proofhouse is the sole and hack in a shield.

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BradW
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Re: Mauser ID help [Re: justcurious]
      #201931 - 08/02/12 05:07 AM

Thanks guys for the info, That's is what I was hoping for. I suppose the price is as mentioned and as I would have guessed, somewhere valued in the $800-$900 range? I rarely see these in this area and havn't followed the online auction prices so I'm more wondering if it's ballpark? The guy selling it is a great guy and just wanting to sell it to recoup his money, If it's worth it to me and everyone is happy that's fine, I just don't want to go too far over what may be "actual value". Thanks again for the info.
Brad

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pjaln
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Re: Mauser ID help [Re: BradW]
      #201944 - 08/02/12 06:38 AM

if it had a typical bolt handle as opposed to a spoon typre it would appeal more to me personally and i may pay more,, on the other hand the stock has been pinned as i can see in the pics so i stick by my value...but it is a great cartridge...paulp

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justcurious
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Re: Mauser ID help [Re: pjaln]
      #201952 - 08/02/12 08:54 AM

Quote:

if it had a typical bolt handle as opposed to a spoon typre it would appeal more to me personally and i may pay more,, on the other hand the stock has been pinned as i can see in the pics so i stick by my value...but it is a great cartridge...paulp



Exactly my thought

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kuduae
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Reged: 13/01/10
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Re: Mauser ID help [Re: justcurious]
      #201955 - 08/02/12 10:25 AM

You all have missed some details: The rifle is built on a commercial pre-WW1 Mauser, Oberndorf, action, evidenced by the large triggerguard with the set triggers built directly into, without a seperate set trigger housing. So there should be a Mauser commercial serial number stamped on the underside of the receiver ring and on the rear wall of the magazine. these would help to date the action more closely. Prior to WW1 there were no surplus M98 actions. The Mauser patents were still valid. Anyone wanting to build a M98 actioned rifle first had to buy in an action from Mauser. Before the great war Mauser sold more than two rhirds of their commercial production as actions or barreled actions to other gunmakers like Rigby, Holland&Holland, Sauer & Sohn and many lesser ones.
Another story is told by the proofmarks: The CROWN-crown/N proofmarks were in use up to 1912 only. They indicate proof by using the "4000at powder" made by Spandau arsenal for proof cartridges. This powder, loaded grain for grain, produced 4000 at instead of the 3200 at maximum sevice pressure when loaded in the 8x57I M88 service cartridge. As the deleted charge mark on the left of the receiver ring shows, the rifle was originally proofed for 2.5 gramm Gewehrblättchenpulver, the service charge of the 8x57I. Much later it was rebored, rerifled and rechambered to the 9.3x62, shown by the "new" 18.3gr bullet weight mark. The gun was reproooved with a 9.0 to 9.09 bore diameter (not groove or bullet)and for the 62mm case length as gun number 294 of October 1938 by the Zella-Mehlis proofhouse. As the old CROWN-crown/N marks were then out of use, but still valid, they did not bother to restamp new ones.
Prior to WW1 a "classic Mauser bolthandle" looked as "military" and "newfangled" as a AR15 clone looks today, so these were very often altered to this now unclassy spoonshape.

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justcurious
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Re: Mauser ID help [Re: kuduae]
      #202011 - 09/02/12 01:53 AM

I believe that´s what you have in mind.
http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/9786/pict0619p.jpg

This one is from a Sauer rifle.

Mauser production number dating to 1905

Edited by justcurious (09/02/12 01:57 AM)

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BradW
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Re: Mauser ID help [Re: justcurious]
      #202050 - 09/02/12 02:28 PM

I'll take a look soon, I'm working night shifts and haven't had a chance to check it out further. I appreciate everyone's help with this.
Brad

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BradW
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Re: Mauser ID help [Re: BradW]
      #202104 - 10/02/12 08:48 AM

I pulled the action today and there are two numbers under the receiver ring, 49345 and 22220. the trigger sear parts have the number 45 on them so I'm guessing they go with the number 49345? I couldn't see the rear wall of the magazine since it was tight and I don't own it yet and didn't want to pry on it, it had also been glass bedded, looks like a nice job.
The bolt shows color case hardening and I imagine this was a pretty decent rifle in it's day, Is the spoon shaped bolthandle considered unclassy? I kind of like it, maybe because all other bolt handles are usually the normal round ones. One other question on the stock pins.. Are they factory or added at a later date? they strike me as a bit crude.

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kuduae
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Re: Mauser ID help [Re: BradW]
      #202132 - 10/02/12 06:57 PM

The Mauser commercial serial number 49345 dates the action to late 1911 - early 1912. Color case hardening was then a common Suhl/Zella-Mehlis upgrade of boltactions. The crosspins to the stock are, with the glassbedding, a later addition, probably to stop or repair a split stock. Stocksplitting is quite common on these early bolt actions, as proper bedding was not yet fully understood.

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