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Smoke73
.300 member


Reged: 30/05/11
Posts: 164
Loc: Rocky Mtn. House Alberta
George Gibbs Rook rifle
      #200474 - 24/01/12 03:40 PM

I have a George Gibbs rook rifle that at some point had a barrel liner installed and is now chambered in 22LR. Original caliber is unknown as info was stamped over. It looks like it was in the thirty caliber range. Was looking through my Ellis book and noticed my rook is nearly identical to the H&H rook pictured in the back. My question is what is the relative strength of this action as another barrel in a pistol caliber would be alot of fun but I don't want to stress the action. The serial # 47375

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Your not tired, you just think your tired, you don't even know what the hell tired is.- Garth Ahlstrom (Thanx Dad love ya)

"When one of them is born, their god says ' Go in peace.'
When one of us is born our Gods say "Go hunting."- J. Emmett Willie

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500Nitro
.450 member


Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: George Gibbs Rook rifle [Re: Smoke73]
      #200476 - 24/01/12 03:44 PM


I think they called the inserts Parkerised or something to do with Parker Hale.

A lot of them were done.

Caliber may have been 300 Rook but Cartridges of the World is a great book that lists them all and give loads / pressures so you should be able to match it up to a suitable pistol calibre.

Not sure how you will go about rebarrelling / reboring it.

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Smoke73
.300 member


Reged: 30/05/11
Posts: 164
Loc: Rocky Mtn. House Alberta
Re: George Gibbs Rook rifle [Re: 500Nitro]
      #200477 - 24/01/12 03:50 PM

I am thinking of building a new monoblock so that I could leave the existing barrel as is.

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Your not tired, you just think your tired, you don't even know what the hell tired is.- Garth Ahlstrom (Thanx Dad love ya)

"When one of them is born, their god says ' Go in peace.'
When one of us is born our Gods say "Go hunting."- J. Emmett Willie

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HuviusModerator
.416 member


Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3556
Loc: Colorado
Re: George Gibbs Rook rifle [Re: Smoke73]
      #200518 - 25/01/12 02:07 AM

Could be "Parkerifled" or could have been lined by just about anybody.
I would think that a good rook action could handle up to a 38 Special although the 32 H&R or 32 S&W may be closer to the original rook chamberings.
Also, look at the breech face and firing pin location. If it was modified for the rimfire .22, you may be better off running a 17HMR or similar. If the central firing pin was retained, then anything from 22 Hornet up to the smaller pistol cartridges would work out.

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He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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500Nitro
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Reged: 06/01/03
Posts: 7244
Loc: Victoria, Australia
Re: George Gibbs Rook rifle [Re: Huvius]
      #200519 - 25/01/12 02:12 AM

Huvius

That is a good point re the firing pin, I had forgotten that they sometimes modified them.

Edited by 500Nitro (25/01/12 02:47 AM)

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Smoke73
.300 member


Reged: 30/05/11
Posts: 164
Loc: Rocky Mtn. House Alberta
Re: George Gibbs Rook rifle [Re: 500Nitro]
      #200520 - 25/01/12 02:44 AM

Doesn't look modified but will pull out some calipers tonight to see if it's anywhere near center.

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Your not tired, you just think your tired, you don't even know what the hell tired is.- Garth Ahlstrom (Thanx Dad love ya)

"When one of them is born, their god says ' Go in peace.'
When one of us is born our Gods say "Go hunting."- J. Emmett Willie

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 27005
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: George Gibbs Rook rifle [Re: Smoke73]
      #200522 - 25/01/12 03:10 AM

Diameter of the pin is of large importance. If a black powder fat pin, the converting to a hornet is something I wouldn't advise.

The original calibre could have been anything from .22 cal RF., on up to the .30's. As it appears to not have been modified, perhaps it always was a .22RF? Boring to 5/16" is normal for a liner, which would give the appearance of being larger bored than it was.

Just a thought.

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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HuviusModerator
.416 member


Reged: 04/11/07
Posts: 3556
Loc: Colorado
Re: George Gibbs Rook rifle [Re: DarylS]
      #200526 - 25/01/12 04:44 AM

Quote:

Diameter of the pin is of large importance. If a black powder fat pin, the converting to a hornet is something I wouldn't advise



Good point there Daryl.
Maybe a Gibbs cartridge would be in order. What was it, 360No.5 Gibbs?

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He who lives in the past is doomed to enjoy it.

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
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Re: George Gibbs Rook rifle [Re: Huvius]
      #200530 - 25/01/12 05:11 AM

If wanting to re-barrel it, I'd be inclined to try something like the H&R .32 mag. case. It will handle light smokeless and black powder loads as well yet has enough length to give decent ballistics. I'd be looking for something in the 1,200fps to 1,300fps range with an 80 to 90gr. lubed lead bullet. I think it would make a really fun gun to shoot. I once made up a .32 S&W Long on a Steven's favourite. It was a blast to shoot & did in quite a number of ruffled grouse for me. 2gr. of bullseye and a 100gr. bullet. I used a piece of worn out Winchester Palma Trophy match barrel. Still have it - the non worn, .32 S&W part. I used a twist drill for chambering - and a perfect job it did.

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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kamilaroi
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Reged: 18/12/04
Posts: 1803
Loc: sydney, new south wales, Austr...
Re: George Gibbs Rook rifle [Re: DarylS]
      #200547 - 25/01/12 10:17 AM

Mr Smoke,

Photos would identify which model it is as they used other patent actions. Wal Winfer's vol 2 would assist. Do you have a copy?

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sbs470
.333 member


Reged: 15/04/04
Posts: 378
Loc: Sheffield Tasmania
Re: George Gibbs Rook rifle [Re: kamilaroi]
      #200601 - 25/01/12 09:13 PM

There may be a calibre .300" or .250"stamped along the proof mark.
In Colin Greenwoods book The Clasic Rook and Rabbit rifle he examines a Gibbs rifle serial number B4651 calibre 297/250 . on the underside of the barrel is serial number 69972 and this repeated on the underside of the action body, on top of the barrel has the Bristol and london address and Gibbs serial number B4651
He goes on to state that it was made after 1907 because of the London address and that it was made by Webley and retailed by Gibbs.
Elsewhere in the book he states that when centre fire rook rifle ammunition became hard to get and the licenceing system imposed by the police in 1920 sleeving rook rifles with a 22 parker sleeve was the solution

My own Army Navy side lever .300" rook (Webley) the barrel was pitted and rusted.I had it recut and chambered to 32/20.I only load 5 grains of ADI ap70 for the Big Game Rifle rook rifle event.I keep the load light.The firing pin hole in the action is large and a hot load could cause primer problems
I hope this helps

good shooting

sbs470

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HistoricBore
.300 member


Reged: 28/09/11
Posts: 226
Loc: United Kingdom
Re: George Gibbs Rook rifle [Re: sbs470]
      #200604 - 25/01/12 10:53 PM

Hi Smoke73

Looks like you have got some good advice so far from other members. Rook rifles are my specialist subject here in England, and I have been running a target shooting event here for 12 years. I have a Holland & Holland sleeved to .22lr which is brilliant. It was originally a .295, which is the same thing as the .300 Rook. Many shooters here have rescued rook rifles that were bored out to .410 shotgun after 1920 by sleeving. I have one which had that done, so I got my late friendly gunsmith to make me a second barrel from a worn .308 / 7.62 target rifle barrel. I know the twist rate is too fast, but chambered in 32-20 it is extremely accurate. Just for fun I loaded it up to 1900 fps which worked well, but indeed the primers flowed back around the firing pin, so was difficult to open. I now keep loads to 1100 fps with a 120 grain cast bullet.

Other shooters use .32 S&W Long or the .32 Magnum, which is hard to find here since they took away our pistols (sob!). You don't say what type of action your rifle is, if with a centre hammer or hammerless, break-open or Martini, etc. A photo would be nice. .38 Special sub-sonic loads are also fine in many rifles. .22 Hornet loads are also possible, although far too fast to be a true rook rifle, and may not suit the sights. Has yours got any cast-on or cast-off??

Finally Wal Winfer will have a new book out soon (or two) all about rook rifles. Hammer actions in the first volume, hammerless in the second.

HistoricBore

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DBLGN
.224 member


Reged: 16/10/07
Posts: 46
Loc: Colorado, USA
Re: George Gibbs Rook rifle [Re: HistoricBore]
      #200624 - 26/01/12 04:26 AM

"looking through my Ellis book and noticed my rook is nearly identical to the H&H rook pictured in the back."

The H&H rook rifle in the book was originally chambered for "250 Semi-smooth" with a center hammer (which I had to make a new hammer for - on the original, the sear notch was broken out). As with too many of these rifles, it had been excessively tampered with and even re-lining was not an option. I tried, but even with a piloted drill, the bore was too crooked to use. Anyway, we ended up having to cut the original barrel using it as a monoblock. We built the original barrel into a 25-20 Win. Then built two additional monoblocks, one became a .22 Hornet, the other a .410 (these were the customer's requests). Both rifle barrels were equipped with my QD scope mounts and iron sights. When I made the new hammer, I made it with a right angle "ear" or spur to the RH side (for a RH shooter), to make it easier to cock with the scopes mounted. Really hated to see that gun leave the shop - was so much fun to shoot and quite accurate.

This gun was supposed to be for the customers wife, but have heard nothing back that she has used it at all. Her husband on the other hand, has reported taking hyena, Francolin, and spur fowl with it - go figure.

These are not super strong actions, but agree with most of the cartridge suggestions above. Like anything else, the cartridge selection is a very personal preference - what you like, already have dies & loading stuff for, have another gun chambered for, or my personal favorite - I just like the "looks" of this cartridge (whatever it might be). Obviously, as has been mentioned, the issue about whether or not the firing pin has been modified for the .22RF needs to be addressed. On the one I had, the pin was easily replaced and one could have had one for a rimfire and one for center fire.


Ellis

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DBLGN

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MikeRowe
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Reged: 23/11/11
Posts: 478
Loc: Arkansas, USA
Re: George Gibbs Rook rifle [Re: DBLGN]
      #202196 - 11/02/12 01:36 PM

I recently completed a set of detachable Davidson rings and new blocks for a delightful little back action hammer sidelever single by Daniel Fraser. It had been sleeved to .22LR from a rook cartridge.

In spite of the quite curved bore (which was a real trick to set up the 3/4" tube scope I was sent, as it was not image moving), the rifle is a real shooter. Well, it is a Fraser, after all.

A Fraser just does not look like a Fraser without a scope. This one's had been lost somewhere in time.

Needless to say, the rifle's owner is very happy now.

Edited by MikeRowe (11/02/12 01:37 PM)

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Orvar
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Reged: 31/12/08
Posts: 164
Loc: London, UK
Re: George Gibbs Rook rifle [Re: MikeRowe]
      #202446 - 14/02/12 06:12 AM

Pic?

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MikeRowe
.333 member


Reged: 23/11/11
Posts: 478
Loc: Arkansas, USA
Re: George Gibbs Rook rifle [Re: Orvar]
      #203009 - 20/02/12 02:35 PM

Here we go:

Click on the image to make it larger.

I shot an inch and a quarter group at 40 yards (10 shots), mounting and dismounting the scope every two shots. This with bulk Federal ammunition.





Edited by CptCurl (06/03/12 11:12 PM)

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