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375Brno
.333 member


Reged: 18/10/05
Posts: 354
Loc: Brisbane, Australia
Scope needed for African Plains Game ??
      #199891 - 18/01/12 07:10 PM

Hi

Never been on a plains game hunt so at the risk of asking an obvious question here goes.

For a typical hunt (kudu, eland, zebra, etc) do you need to be scoped.

I am thinking that some PHs may have some requirements and it also depends on what type of shots you take (shooting position eg. standing with rest), how long the shots are, and obviously how good a shot you are. If you were not scoped what sort of accuracy (and in what position) would be required at say 100 yards. Not necessarily easy questions however any feedback appreciated.
Regards
Rick

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tophet1
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Reged: 15/09/07
Posts: 1873
Loc: NSW, Australia
Re: Scope needed for African Plains Game ?? [Re: 375Brno]
      #199906 - 18/01/12 08:30 PM

Rick there is never an obvious question so good on you for asking.

You need to talk to your PH. He will be realistic about the distances he can get you within game. A lot of that will also depend on the area (bush) you hunt in and how much the game has been shot up.

My first safari/cull I used a .308W and fixed 6x42 for shots from 40 metres to 200 metres without issue. The game there is larger than here and so easier IMO to bracket with a scope at 6x. I must admit I did wish for more magnification on more than one occasion.

The second Safarai was with a 9.3x62 with a custom shop Leupold 1-4x20 VX-IIc as I was hunting Kudu and Eland in close cover as my primary species. It never got off 4x. Ranges then were 40 metres to 260 metres. I now have a 4x32 Conquest for that rifle to improve the field of view but use it with Express sights. A 20mm objective on an entry level scope like a Leupold is piss poor in low light.

I used that 9.3x62 with the express sights to take an old cull Impala by stalking within 20metres of her. It took two days of hard stalking to do that. If I did not have the time I would have missed out.

Hunting with open/express sights is uber rewarding and I have stripped the mounts off my 9.3x62 for Camels in open country. It is that much fun. I learnt to shoot with open sights so the transition back to them was not too hard.

For the game you list on a first Safari I would recommend a variable. There are no flys on a 3-9x40 with a plex reticle as long as you are prepared to turn it down. On dusk you have to turn it down to 6x or 4x to make the most of the light transmission. Just buy the best you can afford.

My ultimate scope is my Zeiss Victory 2.5-10 x 42T on my 7x57 with reticle in the 1st focal plane. Great lenses and coatings and you can see things on twilight that are invisible to the naked eye.

I always managed to get a rest. Either on sticks or while kneeling. The thorns and burrs in the bushveldt can be unreal. In the grassveldt I used a bipod on the .308W or went fully prone. If you can't pass up a shot then you will be in trouble off hand.

Practise, practise, practise. It will repay itself in spades.

Edit: All you need is the ability to hit a 6"plate at 200 yards and you will be right with a scope. Hit a 6" plate with open sights at 100 yards and you will collect what you hunt. The peripheral vision with open sights (even a peep or Ghost) is amazing.

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tophet1
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Reged: 15/09/07
Posts: 1873
Loc: NSW, Australia
Re: Scope needed for African Plains Game ?? [Re: tophet1]
      #199907 - 18/01/12 08:48 PM

Correction: I shot my Eland which was running L to R whilst standing @ 40 metres with the 9.3. The scope was on 2.5 x as it was dusk.

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FATBOY404
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Reged: 14/11/09
Posts: 1730
Loc: QLD
Re: Scope needed for African Plains Game ?? [Re: tophet1]
      #199911 - 18/01/12 09:37 PM

For you first plains game I would use a scope but it is up to you and you maybe left with a bad taste if the animal of a life time is spotted on dark or at 250-300 yards.

Shot my
Warthog at 40 yards
Impalla's at 200 yards,140 yards and 175 yards
Zebra at 120 yards
Kudu at 160 yards moving
Baboon at 160 yards
Hyena at 45 yards
and Cape Buff at 25 yards.

I think if you can hit a balloon at 100 yards everytime with open sights your set.

--------------------
"WHATEVER BLOWS YOUR HAIR BACK"

Edited by FATBOY404 (18/01/12 09:40 PM)

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NitroXAdministrator
.700 member


Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39680
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Scope needed for African Plains Game ?? [Re: FATBOY404]
      #199920 - 18/01/12 11:05 PM

I would be talking to the PH or outfitter you will use.

If you are competent with field shooting with open sights on the size of game you are interested in to say 200 yards, I don't see a problem especially in bushveld.

If open country with lots of long shots, maybe a scope is a good idea.

Long range shooting = boring hunting to me anyway.


I've used a 4x scope on my first safari with a .30-06.

A 4x scope (I think it was put on at last moment to remove a malfunctioning Leupold variable) on .375 on the two safari trip next.

Then an open sighted .450 DR and a scoped 9.3mm DR on the next two safari hunt. The 9.3mm, I think the scope was a 1 1/2 to 6x. Will have to check the photos.

I find a 4x scope is easily big enough for most hunting. A 1x is better for close in running shots. A 6x or higher is good for long range shooting. I mostly use my 8x, 9x or 10x scope settings for small game or brain shooting medium game.

I used to be a better shot with open sights before scopes spoiled me. However was surprised at a BGRC shoot how well I shot with open sights. Did not expect it.



--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

Edited by NitroX (18/01/12 11:13 PM)

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Ripp
.577 member


Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: Scope needed for African Plains Game ?? [Re: NitroX]
      #199924 - 19/01/12 12:37 AM

Agree with the others..talk to your PH..

Depends on where you will be hunting..in my experience..shots in Zim are fairly close..think the longest shot I have ever taken there was 265 yards on a bushbuck while we were after elephant..used a 1.75x6 VX3--Leupold..have used that scope on 4 hunts in Africa --NO problems thus far..

Shots in South Africa or Namibia, in my experience shots tend to be a bit longer than those in Zim.

The other rifle I usually take is my HS Precision in 300 Ultra--which I prefer for plains game-- I have a 4.5-14 VX3 Leupold on it..have used that fun for the past 10 years or more--have never had an issue with either gun or scope..have have literally put hundreds of rounds through it...

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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HogPilot
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Reged: 26/05/09
Posts: 180
Loc: Texas
Re: Scope needed for African Plains Game ?? [Re: Ripp]
      #199925 - 19/01/12 01:01 AM

Good advice already given here. Main thing is to discuss what type and distance of shooting you will be doing. Depending on where you hunt, you may see 50 yards shots to 300+. Typically, there are very few requirements for long range shooting in Africa but again, it is terrain dependent.

A 3X9 variable will suit you best and if you like shooting open sights, just mount the scope with quick detach hardware.

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bonanza
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Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina
Re: Scope needed for African Plains Game ?? [Re: Ripp]
      #199926 - 19/01/12 01:03 AM

On my recent plains game hunt I took three (Impala, Warthog and Wildebeest) with a 116 year old double with open sights. I did shoot an Enland with a .375 bolt rifle fitted with a Swarovski 1.2x4.

I had specified to the PH no shots over 200 yards and no rests.

--------------------


"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39680
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Scope needed for African Plains Game ?? [Re: 375Brno]
      #199928 - 19/01/12 01:57 AM

Quote:

For a typical hunt (kudu, eland, zebra, etc) do you need to be scoped.



I hunted bushbuck in South Africa on irrigated crops. We could see bushbuck coming out of the riverine scrub from 150 to 800 metres away. I used a scoped .375 so it was a little problem for long shots but managed to take a very nice bushbuck at around 160 metres.

A scope in reliable QD mounts would be a good idea for a plains game rifle for which you want to use mainly open sights.



It made it into the thick scrub and needed a finishing shot.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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xausa
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Reged: 07/03/07
Posts: 2037
Loc: Tennessee, USA
Re: Scope needed for African Plains Game ?? [Re: 375Brno]
      #199930 - 19/01/12 02:01 AM

Asking this question implies to me that you are not accustomed to hunting with a scope. If that is the case, then trying to get accustomed to a scope on an expensive African hunt makes no sense. If you are thinking scope versus receiver sight, then as far as aiming preciseness is ocncerned you will not sacrifice much by using a receiver sight. However, there are more issues involved than aiming preciseness. You may be called upon to shoot in low light conditions, where a receiver sight or open sight would be next to worthless. You may be called upon to shoot at an animal which is clearly visible to you through binoculars, but which blends into the scenery with the naked eye.

Assuming you have time between now and your projected hunt, I would recommend that by all means you choose a scope, preferably a fixed power 4X or less. Then you need to practice with it. You can do this in your living room, by taking your (verified) unloaded rifle, holding it at the ready position, selecting a discrete object in the room (door knob, light switch) and raising the rifle to your shoulder until you are looking through the scope. If you practice enough, you will find that the crosshair of the scope comes to rest on the object you are looking at. When you have achieved this, you are ready to hunt with your scope, and need only range practice to perfect your technique.

I have heard horror stories from professional hunters whose clients could not find a record book kudu in the scope, although it was standing in the open, 60 yards away. The same with a leopard on a bait tree 40 yards away. In either case, the client would have been better off with metallic sights, but that need not be the case.

I approached African hunting with years of varmint hunting in my background, which involved locating a relatively tiny object like a crow or groundhog two to three hundred yards away in my 8X to 10X scope and lining up and executing the shot before the elusive game disappeared. I recommend this form of hunting highly as a preparation for an African hunt. If this is not an option, then long hours at the range will pay rewarding dividends.

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NitroXAdministrator
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Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39680
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...
Re: Scope needed for African Plains Game ?? [Re: xausa]
      #199932 - 19/01/12 02:15 AM

xausa makes some good points.

I swapped my open sighted double rifle for the PH's scope sighted .416 Rem when trying to shoot a cape buffalo bull in a herd. The scope made all the difference for trying to pick a shot safe from hitting another buffalo. In the end didn't fire as none of the big horned bulls had hard enough bosses for what I wanted. Some of them looked to have damned big horns in the scope though. But I had set the standard and so missed out.

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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375Brno
.333 member


Reged: 18/10/05
Posts: 354
Loc: Brisbane, Australia
Re: Scope needed for African Plains Game ?? [Re: NitroX]
      #199960 - 19/01/12 09:48 AM

Thanks everyone. Lots of good advice here. I had not thought about the low light situation.
Will be at least 18 months before I get there and I plan to get plenty of practice in the field and at the range before then.
At this stage I believe a scope in QD mounts is the way to go.
Thanks again
Rick

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Schauckis
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Reged: 17/07/07
Posts: 151
Loc: Finland
Re: Scope needed for African Plains Game ?? [Re: 375Brno]
      #200928 - 29/01/12 12:39 AM

Yep gppd thinking (and a good question).
Xausa thought very much along the lines I, too, think. However, having been in the situation, here's what I have to say.

I have practically no experience at all with scope sights.
On my first trip, I asked the outfitter what kind of gun(s) were on offer as I intended not to bring my own. They had two .30-06s and one .375, all scoped.
Not liking recoil I immediatelly opted for the .30-06.
Knowing this, I borrowed two scoped .30-06s to practice. Worthwile noting is that I also am not used to bolt actions.
I was going out in the fall and I got the guns about mid-summer so I practiced like there was no tomorrow. I dry-fired, practiced quick target acquisition, and I went on the range to get used to the gun type and scope. I fired altogether some 500 rounds in about two months' time.
When in Zimbabwe, all this paid back in spades!
I did have some problems, however:
1) Finding the animal in the scope. Especially when not standing up (on the sticks) I found it very hard to spot the animal with the scope although I could see it with my naked eye - i.e. had I had an open-sighted gun there would have been no problem.
2) Parallax error - if your head angle is not quite right, you will not look straight through the scope. This is usually palpable as you see the walls of the scope: the sight picture is not round. However, this happened to me once, causing a miss on a zebra @ about 100 meters. An easy shot in other words.

On the upside, the scope does help you find the correct aiming point, and also in shrub it makes it child's play to find a clear path for the bullet. Not so with open sights.
This I learned in Namibia when shooting an oryx that was standing under a tree. The branches were low mostly covering the animal. With the help of the scope I was able to put the bullet beneath the branches in the heart.

The shooting distances varied between approx. 25 meters and a lazered 176 meters. All one-shot kills (except for the miss on the zebra.... )

Broadly speaking, I do recommend the use of the scope.
If you are not used to a scope, start practising right now!
Also I'd advice against a scope with too big a magnification. There are people who will strongly disagree, but I have never cranked any scope up to more than 4x and even that has actually never been needed. I appreciate the wide field of view provided by the low magnification.
This caused some amusement in Zim, as I had the scope on the lowest power setting at all times. Both PHs (we were two hunters) recommended a higher power setting. After a couple of days my PH noted that if I kept shooting like I had thus far, I could keep the rifle up-side-down for all that he cared.
So get used to it and find your own comfort zone!

- Lars/Finland

--------------------
A.k.a. Bwana One-Shot

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