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Having read the thread questions and comments, I would like to add a few words regarding "commercial hunting" and the difference between coming home "empty handed".

I assume that the reason why we go hunting is because of the "Hunting" rather than presenting a trophy on the wall. The art of hunting is exactly this to get close to the animal and have the nerve to wait for the perfect moment. When deciding to shoot, the Hunting is over and making the shoot is the deciding moment that will tell if all the preparations were perfect or not.

Being "over gunned" could tempt to make shoots that were never to be taken if there were not "commercial" aspects of the Hunt, both on the side of the Guide as well as the Hunter.

I have for many years hunted with single shot rifles, and rarely shoot anything at long distance. The trophy is for me little more than a key to the memory of the Hunt, so using another half hour to get close is what creates this special memory that will still be there many years after. When NOT making a shot I frequently have a conversation with myself about "Why didn’t you shoot?" and the answer always boils down to:”I was not ready".
Having said that, I very often take shots where the situation only lasts a few seconds, or even a fraction of a second when an animal presents itself when escaping. The key point here is to anticipate the situation and know the window of opportunity when it is there.

Regarding shoot placement I rarely take a second shot at an animal, simply because I know where it was hit and a good heart & lung shot will never take the animal down unless you break bones.

I do intend to go to Africa to find a reasonable Cape Buffalo, and I really hope that I will have the time needed to get close and await the perfect moment or come back a second time, after all I won't be there to kill a Buffalo but to Hunt one.

Best regards, Peter

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Having read the thread questions and comments, I would like to add a few words regarding "commercial hunting" and the difference between coming home "empty handed".

I assume that the reason why we go hunting is because of the "Hunting" rather than presenting a trophy on the wall. The art of hunting is exactly this to get close to the animal and have the nerve to wait for the perfect moment. When deciding to shoot, the Hunting is over and making the shoot is the deciding moment that will tell if all the preparations were perfect or not.

Being "over gunned" could tempt to make shoots that were never to be taken if there were not "commercial" aspects of the Hunt, both on the side of the Guide as well as the Hunter.

I have for many years hunted with single shot rifles, and rarely shoot anything at long distance. The trophy is for me little more than a key to the memory of the Hunt, so using another half hour to get close is what creates this special memory that will still be there many years after. When NOT making a shot I frequently have a conversation with myself about "Why didn’t you shoot?" and the answer always boils down to:”I was not ready".
Having said that, I very often take shots where the situation only lasts a few seconds, or even a fraction of a second when an animal presents itself when escaping. The key point here is to anticipate the situation and know the window of opportunity when it is there.

Regarding shoot placement I rarely take a second shot at an animal, simply because I know where it was hit and a good heart & lung shot will never take the animal down unless you break bones.

I do intend to go to Africa to find a reasonable Cape Buffalo, and I really hope that I will have the time needed to get close and await the perfect moment or come back a second time, after all I won't be there to kill a Buffalo but to Hunt one.

Best regards, Peter

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Sounds good in theory. Not in practicality. When you spend $15,000 + on that reasonable Cape Buffalo, you'll want to be able to take the shot. I disagree with your definition of the term "commercial" but I understand what you're saying. However, there is no reason to go undergunned when viable options are available. For instance, I prefer to hunt Buffalo with a 500NE double. Using that weapon, I have to get in close. But once I do, I want to be able to drive that bullet into the vitals from whatever angle is presented to me. Luckily, more level heads have prevailed, establishing minimum caliber requirements for Dangerous Game in most "wild" areas of Africa!

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WOW..where to begin...

There are so many on here I would wanted to respond to ..but figured this was as good of a spot to start as any..

Agree with HogPilot on this..all good in THEORY..

I have used my 300 Ultra-mag for all plains game I have shot in Africa..and at this point is somewhere in excess of 70...have shot from the smallest of antelope to Hippo with that gun..as well as crocs... for some it was severely overgunned and for others it worked just right...but again this was for plains game only..

When hunting dangerous game I also use what I feel is "plenty of gun"..have never taken anything over there at this point smaller than a .416 Remington..and up to this point, have never felt undergunned..if I am hunting plains game in dangerous game country I will NEVER again hunt with anything less than a .375...even if I am only hunting plains game..have had more than one instance on my last hunt to prove that point...is a .375 needed to shoot an eland, impala, zebra or kudu?? NO...but is a .375 or more needed if you have a tuskless cow blowing out of the brush pissed off cause you got too close..YES...it is then that a .270, 300 or .338 feels aweful small especially when loaded with softs and you have several tons of pacaderm heading your way in a very quick manner..

Can smaller calibers be used for larger game?? ..absolutely...have several friends here that have shot elk year after year with .220 Swifts, .22-250's and .243's...however they do make very certain of their shot and do NOT take running shots on them...as anyone can attest to, elk are notorious for their tenacity..yet they drop just like anything else if the shot is perfect...and personally, I feel therein lies the rub...IMHO, the larger caliber does help if something, anything, goes slightly off...and I don't care who you are or how great of a shot you are, or think you are...sooner or later, not all things will go exactely as planned...again, IMHO, that is where the larger caliber can make a difference..if you shoot a eland with a .243 can you kill one??..absolutly..but if the animal turns just as you pull the trigger, I firmly believe a 200 gr bullet out of a 300 Ultra-mag will assist in retrieving that animal more readily than if you are shooting a 80gr bullet out of that 243..

Same holds true when hunting cape buffalo..again, in my experience..ALL shots have been close..one much closer than others... ...but, when I hunt them, I feel totally secure when a .416 or bigger is in my hands...

Each to their own, but why in the world would anyone who has traveled to the other side of the planet want to leave more to chance that what is already there??? Which leads to another point..if you live in that area and can hunt them every year and numerous times per year..as in elk here in Montana, and you can take your time to get the perfect shot/scenario..then fine..but how many among us have that opportunity??? Most, at least me, hunt once every couple of years there (Africa)..some I know are much more fortunate and go more often, others are not, but the point remains, why not use the largest caliber you can shoot well when you travel that far and have that much money invested??

Ripp

Edited by Ripp (07/02/12 01:07 PM)

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Having read the thread questions and comments, I would like to add a few words regarding "commercial hunting" and the difference between coming home "empty handed".

I assume that the reason why we go hunting is because of the "Hunting" rather than presenting a trophy on the wall. The art of hunting is exactly this to get close to the animal and have the nerve to wait for the perfect moment. When deciding to shoot, the Hunting is over and making the shoot is the deciding moment that will tell if all the preparations were perfect or not.

Being "over gunned" could tempt to make shoots that were never to be taken if there were not "commercial" aspects of the Hunt, both on the side of the Guide as well as the Hunter.

I have for many years hunted with single shot rifles, and rarely shoot anything at long distance. The trophy is for me little more than a key to the memory of the Hunt, so using another half hour to get close is what creates this special memory that will still be there many years after. When NOT making a shot I frequently have a conversation with myself about "Why didn’t you shoot?" and the answer always boils down to:”I was not ready".
Having said that, I very often take shots where the situation only lasts a few seconds, or even a fraction of a second when an animal presents itself when escaping. The key point here is to anticipate the situation and know the window of opportunity when it is there.

Regarding shoot placement I rarely take a second shot at an animal, simply because I know where it was hit and a good heart & lung shot will never take the animal down unless you break bones.

I do intend to go to Africa to find a reasonable Cape Buffalo, and I really hope that I will have the time needed to get close and await the perfect moment or come back a second time, after all I won't be there to kill a Buffalo but to Hunt one.

Best regards, Peter

---

Sounds good in theory. Not in practicality. When you spend $15,000 + on that reasonable Cape Buffalo, you'll want to be able to take the shot. I disagree with your definition of the term "commercial" but I understand what you're saying. However, there is no reason to go undergunned when viable options are available. For instance, I prefer to hunt Buffalo with a 500NE double. Using that weapon, I have to get in close. But once I do, I want to be able to drive that bullet into the vitals from whatever angle is presented to me. Luckily, more level heads have prevailed, establishing minimum caliber requirements for Dangerous Game in most "wild" areas of Africa!

---

WOW..where to begin...

There are so many on here I would wanted to respond to ..but figured this was as good of a spot to start as any..

Agree with HogPilot on this..all good in THEORY..

I have used my 300 Ultra-mag for all plains game I have shot in Africa..and at this point is somewhere in excess of 70...have shot from the smallest of antelope to Hippo with that gun..as well as crocs... for some it was severely overgunned and for others it worked just right...but again this was for plains game only..

When hunting dangerous game I also use what I feel is "plenty of gun"..have never taken anything over there at this point smaller than a .416 Remington..and up to this point, have never felt undergunned..if I am hunting plains game in dangerous game country I will NEVER again hunt with anything less than a .375...even if I am only hunting plains game..have had more than one instance on my last hunt to prove that point...is a .375 needed to shoot an eland, impala, zebra or kudu?? NO...but is a .375 or more needed if you have a tuskless cow blowing out of the brush pissed off cause you got too close..YES...it is then that a .270, 300 or .338 feels aweful small especially when loaded with softs and you have several tons of pacaderm heading your way in a very quick manner..

Can smaller calibers be used for larger game?? ..absolutely...have several friends here that have shot elk year after year with .220 Swifts, .22-250's and .243's...however they do make very certain of their shot and do NOT take running shots on them...as anyone can attest to, elk are notorious for their tenacity..yet they drop just like anything else if the shot is perfect...and personally, I feel therein lies the rub...IMHO, the larger caliber does help if something, anything, goes slightly off...and I don't care who you are or how great of a shot you are, or think you are...sooner or later, not all things will go exactely as planned...again, IMHO, that is where the larger caliber can make a difference..if you shoot a eland with a .243 can you kill one??..absolutly..but if the animal turns just as you pull the trigger, I firmly believe a 200 gr bullet out of a 300 Ultra-mag will assist in retrieving that animal more readily than if you are shooting a 80gr bullet out of that 243..

Same holds true when hunting cape buffalo..again, in my experience..ALL shots have been close..one much closer than others... ...but, when I hunt them, I feel totally secure when a .416 or bigger is in my hands...

Each to their own, but why in the world would anyone who has traveled to the other side of the planet want to leave more to chance that what is already there??? Which leads to another point..if you live in that area and can hunt them every year and numerous times per year..as in elk here in Montana, and you can take your time to get the perfect shot/scenario..then fine..but how many among us have that opportunity??? Most, at least me, hunt once every couple of years there (Africa)..some I know are much more fortunate and go more often, others are not, but the point remains, why not use the largest caliber you can shoot well when you travel that far and have that much money invested??

Ripp

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Well said Ripp. You and I think alike.

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