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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles
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Ravenwolf
.224 member


Reged: 21/10/04
Posts: 14
Loc: Upstate New York, USA
What to Build?
      #19916 - 22/10/04 05:23 AM

Hi all. Been viewing these forums for a while now and decided to finally post. First let me say it is a great forum. You all get along very well and certainly are a wealth of knowledge. Now for my question. I have a Oberdorf Mauser action that dates back to the 30s. A gunsmith friend of mine who got out of the business gave it to me some time ago but had it hardness tested and said it would be fine for most any conversion done on a standard Mauser action. I am considering having built a custom mannlicher style stocked rifle with a 20” barrel for hunting Whitetail Deer and Black Bear in New York State’s Adirondack Mountains. The style of hunting is mostly still hunting very thick mountain woods where a short carbine would be a great asset. However, occasionally one can sit on a swamp and have shots out to around 200 – 250 yards, but rarely. There is also a real possibility this rifle will be used for Moose and Elk in the western US and eastern Canada. I have been mostly a handgun hunter for the past 20 or so years, using everything from .22s up thru 475 Linebaughs and several wildcat calibers for Contenders, but have enjoyed this forum so much I thought it time for a large bore rifle. What ever caliber is selected I will reload for. So what say ye….what caliber would you recommend? Also, what other options should be considered keeping in mind there are times when I’ll use it scoped and other times when I’ll use open/peep sights, like during still hunting thick woods with heavy snow hanging

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Taos
.300 member


Reged: 09/05/04
Posts: 169
Loc: Nevada, U.S.A.
Re: What to Build? [Re: Ravenwolf]
      #19917 - 22/10/04 06:13 AM

Ravenwolf,

Sounds like a great project. I have been playing with the idea of an 06 size .40 for quite a while. I don;t know if you want something that big it would fill the bill. Should give plenty of range for back there and great knockdown.

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DPhillips
.375 member


Reged: 09/10/03
Posts: 819
Loc: Alaska
Re: What to Build? [Re: Ravenwolf]
      #19918 - 22/10/04 06:15 AM

7x57 or 275 Rigby!!! I think the 20" (I'd go with a 21" just to be difficult) barrel and full length stock sounds like the ticket for what you are looking to do.

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DPhillips
.375 member


Reged: 09/10/03
Posts: 819
Loc: Alaska
Re: What to Build? [Re: DPhillips]
      #19919 - 22/10/04 06:18 AM

OOps, I just noticed this was in the big bore section. My choice of 7x57 surely isn't a big bore. Sorry 'bout that.

Taos,
I noticed a few months ago in GunList someone claimed to be selling Col Whelen's personal 400 Whelen. I can get you the contact if you are interested.

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Ravenwolf
.224 member


Reged: 21/10/04
Posts: 14
Loc: Upstate New York, USA
Re: What to Build? [Re: Taos]
      #19923 - 22/10/04 08:59 AM

Taos. I .40 cal such as the .411 Hawk would be fun. I've also thought about the 9.3X62 or 35 Whelen. I shoot both a 358 JDJ (.358X444 Marlin Improved) and a .444 Marlin in Contender pistols and they both hammer game. The 9.3X62 seems historically correct.

Doc, the 7X57 is a great cartridge. I have a Rem 700 set up for long range varmit shooting in 280 Ackley. Just have a desire for a big bore.

Thanks for the replies and keep the ideas coming....RW

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wombat
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Reged: 06/03/04
Posts: 163
Loc: Australia
Re: What to Build? [Re: Ravenwolf]
      #19925 - 22/10/04 09:38 AM

338-06 would be practical

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DPhillips
.375 member


Reged: 09/10/03
Posts: 819
Loc: Alaska
Re: What to Build? [Re: Ravenwolf]
      #19929 - 22/10/04 02:30 PM

I've got a 411 Hawk, it's chambered in a 1895 Winchester, but would probably be more at home in a controlled round feed action. Mine has a 22" barrel on it.

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Ravenwolf
.224 member


Reged: 21/10/04
Posts: 14
Loc: Upstate New York, USA
Re: What to Build? [Re: DPhillips]
      #19941 - 22/10/04 09:39 PM

Wombat, the 338-06 is certainly an interesting cartridge. Doesn't A-Square have factory loads for it now?

DP, that is one nice looking '95. Nice rib on the barrel. I have never seen one on a '95 like that before. What kind of performance does the 411 Hawk give you?

I considered a big bore lever as my first big bore rifle. Doug Turnbull's shop is just down the road from me and I've shot of couple of .50 cal LAs. One was a 1886 in .50 Alaskan with a steel crescent butt plate (can you say oww) and the other was a converted '71 in .50-110 with shotgun style rear stock. Very comfortable. Not to mention the blueing and case hardening that Doug does is absolutely beautiful. Still want to use the Mauser action...RW

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Taos
.300 member


Reged: 09/05/04
Posts: 169
Loc: Nevada, U.S.A.
Re: What to Build? [Re: Ravenwolf]
      #19944 - 23/10/04 01:48 AM

DPhillips, .275 was my first thought too, then I looked at the forum heading. I am pretty sure I can't afford the Col.'s personal rifle.I think any of the rounds listed would be great. The .50's would be fun with cast bullets. The 9.3's also interesting. I have owned both .35 whelen and a .338-06. I liked the .338 round quite a bit better. It seemed to have better penetration on game and to me also seemed to shoot quite a bit flatter for some reason. I know that they are almost the same round but those were my impressions.

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ALAN_MCKENZIE
.400 member


Reged: 24/03/04
Posts: 1214
Loc: Western Australia
Re: What to Build? [Re: Ravenwolf]
      #19966 - 23/10/04 10:49 PM

I own a 375/338 and have harvested everything from buff to feral goats with it although the feral goats were overkill (bigtime)
Standard mauser action and a pleasure to shoot.
standard 338 cases necked up to 375 so ammo is easy to aquire.
CH4D make the dies for $69-00 US.
Just my thoughts.

--------------------
"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949

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Will
.333 member


Reged: 04/02/03
Posts: 303
Loc: Kansas
Re: What to Build? [Re: ALAN_MCKENZIE]
      #19967 - 23/10/04 11:38 PM

Alan,

Tell me more.

I had the thought of building a short version of the .375, to work in standard actions, and the .375/.338 seems like a good idea, though I don't know how unique it is. Did you follow someone else's lead here or was that an original on your part? I am a "Wildcat" neophyte.

What kind of velocities do you get with 300 gr. bullets?

Do you fire-form the cases?

Any insights would be appreciated.



--------------------
_________________________________________________
Bill Stewart

Once you have been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun.

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ALAN_MCKENZIE
.400 member


Reged: 24/03/04
Posts: 1214
Loc: Western Australia
Re: What to Build? [Re: Will]
      #19993 - 25/10/04 01:17 AM

Glad I might be able to help you.
It is not my idea but is one hell of a buff stopper.
I have some info here,
It is described as a 375/338 or 375 Taylor
Same idea as the 416 Chatfield taylor but using a 375 projectile instead
Geoff McDonald at WOODLEIGH BULLETS recomends a muzzle velocity between 1900 and 2400 for the round nose 300gn projectiles which give brilliant penetration.
His 235 gn projectiles have a recomended speed of between 1900 and 2800 fps
Always remember ,its not the speed of a bullet that kills but the penetration..

Go to google and type in 375/338 or 375 taylor and it should give you a heap of info..
Al

--------------------
"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949

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Will
.333 member


Reged: 04/02/03
Posts: 303
Loc: Kansas
Re: What to Build? [Re: ALAN_MCKENZIE]
      #19994 - 25/10/04 02:32 AM

Alan,

I guess I was not the originator of this idea, eh?

Thanks for the information. I think I will pursue this as in my old age I am always looking for lighter weight rifles, which should be more attainable with the 375 Taylor compared to the typical .375 H&H offering.

I am having a CZ 550 7mm Rem. Mag. rebarreled to 416 Taylor now, which should cut the weight down, from a typical 416 Rem. Mag. rifle, to about 7.5 lbs.

I can see a similar one in 375 Taylor down to less than 7 lbs., I hope.

--------------------
_________________________________________________
Bill Stewart

Once you have been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun.

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DPhillips
.375 member


Reged: 09/10/03
Posts: 819
Loc: Alaska
Re: What to Build? [Re: Ravenwolf]
      #19998 - 25/10/04 07:22 AM

With the 22" barrel, I can push the 400 grain Woodleigh's to just over 2000 fps. I haven't tried going more than that as the pressure I can find on the Hawk suggest I'm around 58,000 psi. 350 grain bullets at roughly the same pressure are pushed around 2300 fps. Mike Brady's 360 grain NF's go a little slower, because they are longer and I can't cram enough powder in the case to achieve 2300 fps and load them in the magazine.

It's not a 416 Rigby. But, it is a handy rifle that works as long as you keep it what it is and not try to turn it into something else.

Fireforming cases is pretty easy and I have yet to have a headspace problem. Extraction has been positive. Fred Zeglin at Z-Hat Custom built this rifle for me and has probably built more 411 Hawks than anyone, and has probably refurbished as many 1895 Winchesters as anyone. Zeglin also builds the Hawk on bolt action rifles, the action he helped developed the cartridge for. It's nothing more than a 400 Whelen with a shorter neck. Shoulder diameter is .454" as was the original 400 Whelen design. That is greater than the 30/06 Springfield shoulder. Many builders other than Griffin & Howe left the 400 Whelen's shoulder at 30/06 spec and that is where the problems with headspace came from. A 400 Whelen with the proper chamber seems to provide sufficient for operation.

Would I use this cartridge in Africa to face down Dangerous Game? Nope. I believe there are much better chamberings for that. The 416 Rigby, Rem, Taylor, 404 Jeff, 458's, etc... are well proven. Plus, .416" bullets are more widely available in a greater range of weights from more manufacturers in more configurations.

The one thing you might think about if you want to keep the 30/06 size casehead is the 416/240 Wby Mag wildcat. It's pretty much a straight walled 30/06 case with a belt.

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WyoJoe
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Reged: 18/02/04
Posts: 234
Loc: Cheyenne, WY USA
Re: What to Build? [Re: Ravenwolf]
      #20000 - 25/10/04 08:32 AM

I am a .375 fan. I love my brother's .375 so much I have been thinking of having me one made. The .375 H&H would be overkill for what you want but why not think of something like the .375 Scovill (sp?). It is the .375 on a .30-06 case. From the data I have seen you can get the .235 gr Barnes X up to about 2700 fps in it. That ought to be good enough for anything in North America. If it is interesting to you I can e-mail you some data.

--------------------
There comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor polite, nor popular -- but one must ask, "Is it right?"

Martin Luther King, Jr.

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Ravenwolf
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Reged: 21/10/04
Posts: 14
Loc: Upstate New York, USA
Re: What to Build? [Re: WyoJoe]
      #20074 - 27/10/04 11:49 PM

Thanks everyone for the replies. I contacted my gunsmith and we are starting to hash out the specifics, ie., 21" barrel, sight rib with scope mount, etc. WyoJoe, if you would, please send me your info on the 375 Scoville. I'm kind of in a quandry trying to decide on a cartridge to go with this mannlicher style rifle. I'm not big on belted magnums but know I can download them a little for deer/blackbear or go full throttle on moose/elk. Still the 9.3X62 looks good but it's performance and the 35 Whelen/338-06 ar so close it would be a coin toss. Maybe something in .375 or .40 cal would be better. Oh decisions, decisions:) RW

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DPhillips
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Reged: 09/10/03
Posts: 819
Loc: Alaska
Re: What to Build? [Re: Ravenwolf]
      #20082 - 28/10/04 05:42 AM

Ravenwolf,
You can also find a lot of the 375 Scovill data at:
http://www.z-hat.com/Hawk%20History.htm
http://www.z-hat.com/375%20Hawk.htm

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ALAN_MCKENZIE
.400 member


Reged: 24/03/04
Posts: 1214
Loc: Western Australia
Re: What to Build? [Re: Ravenwolf]
      #20096 - 28/10/04 12:18 PM

Go for the 375 Chatfield Taylor.
You will not be dissapointed.
Standard action is a bonus.

--------------------
"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949

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AussieMike
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Reged: 01/09/04
Posts: 236
Loc: Southern Tablelands, NSW, Aust...
Re: What to Build? [Re: Ravenwolf]
      #20121 - 29/10/04 01:05 AM

If you're thinking about the 9.3x62, why not the 9.3x64 - a significant increase in performance in a standard action with a bolt face size that will handle 30-06 type cartridges (it just a few thou bigger.

mike

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atkinson6
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Reged: 26/01/04
Posts: 678
Loc: Idaho
Re: What to Build? [Re: AussieMike]
      #20148 - 29/10/04 08:25 AM

I like the 9.3x62 about as well as any caliber for a carbine...They kill so well, I see little need for anything else up to and encluding Buffalo or elephant in a pinch...actually I prefer them to a 9.3x64 because of the brass situation in the USA...and I can load one up pretty close to a 9.3x64 or 375 H&H for all practical purposes...

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AussieMike
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Re: What to Build? [Re: atkinson6]
      #20339 - 02/11/04 12:03 AM

Ray,
Can you neck down 376 Steyr to 9.3x64? Or is the Steyr round shortenned too much?

BTW - I sometimes wait over a year for metric cases here.

mike

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Ravenwolf
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Reged: 21/10/04
Posts: 14
Loc: Upstate New York, USA
Re: What to Build? [Re: atkinson6]
      #20472 - 05/11/04 05:18 AM

Thanks for the reply's everyone. My gunsmith and I sat down, broke open a bottle of Shiraz and started hashing out my fullstock Adirondack Mountain Rifle. By the time we were done (both with the bottle and the rifle decisions) I had decided to go with the 9.3X62 Mauser. I also learned I don't like Shiraz . Oh well at least one thing went right. I appreciate everyone's input and will be posting some pics in (sigh) several looooong months. Thanks again...RW

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