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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Muzzleloaders & Blackpowder
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TomN
.300 member


Reged: 07/03/10
Posts: 149
Loc: washington
777
      #197890 - 27/12/11 09:56 AM

I know that this has been talked to death but is this sub. worth using? I have sean so meany differant thoughts on it that I am a bit confrsed about its use and cleaning. Why would it be harder on barrells if one went home and cleaned it with hot or cold water right away? and if not hot or cold water what about hoppes #9 or #9 pluss for black powder. If #9 is for powder that is crorscive why would it not work? I would like to know as it just went 138 miles round trip to get real balck powder It cost about 100 dollers in gas and the price of the powder together so was hoping that 777 would work ok as I can get it here in town Thanks.
TomN

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DarylSModerator
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26992
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 777 [Re: TomN]
      #197955 - 28/12/11 05:47 AM

Use water to clean it's fouling.

A mistake made by myself and others concerning this powder, is the mention of perchlorates in the chemical mix.

Apparently it's easier to leave perchlorates on the 'list of incredients' than to replace it with a different chemical, due to labling laws - seems strange to me.

Perchlorates are exceptionally corrosive - perchlorates compose something like 17% of Pyrodex. T-7's chemical composition has changed from Pyrodex's composition and no longer contains perchlorates so it, T-7, should not be as corrosive as Pyrodex.

Bill Knight, a man whose information I respect and value, states he tested T-7 and found no perchlorates in it and that if he had to use a substitute, he himself would use T-7.

He, in no circumstance, would use Pyrodex or any other phoney powder that used perchlorates in it's composition.

As with real black powder, use water for cleaning. You do not need soap or any other corrosive to clean with. Yes, most soaps are mildly corrosive as well or have corrosive ingredients - along with salt in some.

I know many people use soap and scolding hot water - I don't and haven't since 1978, yet have never rusted nor pitted a barrel. I use tap water, cold usually, barely warm at most. I have seen scolding hot water used by a number of people and it ruined their barrels due to the accumulative effect of flash rusting over time, as it flash rusted their barrels every time they clean them. Minor pitting holds fouling and makes loading repeated shots, difficult. Piting also ruins/wears patches and reduces accuracy while promoting leading when bullets are used.

My brother gets to re-barrel rifles every year, whose owners did not abide by our cleaning regime and ended up rotting their barrels. There is information readily given on the net that is not good for your barrels.

We're told T-7 produces higher speeds and pressure when used in equal weight charges, ie: 100gr. of T-7 produces higher speeds and pressure than 100gr. of 2F black powder. I have not chronogrpahed it as I use only black powder.

I have also heard it is on par with Swiss 1 1/2 powder, which suggests one should drop the charge by 15% to match 2f black powder.

edited for futher clarity

Edited by Daryl_S (30/12/11 04:52 AM)

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cordite
.333 member


Reged: 29/01/07
Posts: 341
Loc: NW Montana
Re: 777 [Re: TomN]
      #198093 - 30/12/11 03:58 AM

In a .72 like yours I had trouble with 777 burning up patches even with a wad. Switching to Goex solved that problem. Just something to watch out for.

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tinker
.416 member


Reged: 12/03/05
Posts: 4835
Loc: Nevada
Re: 777 [Re: cordite]
      #198098 - 30/12/11 05:12 AM

Best fix for the problem is to have it shipped to you in bulk.
There are quite a few places who will ship Goex Black Powder.


I travel 28 miles to my closest family gun store, and from time to time consider having it shipped too.






Cheers
Tinker

--------------------
--Self-Appointed Colonel, DRSS--



"It IS a dangerous game, and so named for a reason, and you can't play from the keyboard. " --Some Old Texan...

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DarylSModerator
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26992
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 777 [Re: tinker]
      #198108 - 30/12/11 08:44 AM

Graf's in the States ships - something GOEX like $14.00 per pound, shipping included. Just going by memory, here.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Tatume
.400 member


Reged: 09/06/07
Posts: 1091
Loc: Gloucester, Va USA
Re: 777 [Re: DarylS]
      #198113 - 30/12/11 10:19 AM

Hi Daryl,

Graf and Sons does not include shipping in the price of GOEX powder ( http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/search/keywords/goex ). The current price for FFg is $14.99 per pound, plus $4.95 S&H plus $25 hazmat fee. Thus, one pound would cost $44.94. Of course (to paraphrase the old Wise potato chip commercial), nobody can buy just one, so the shipping and hazmat costs can be diluted. For example, ten pounds of GOEX FFg would cost $179.85, or about $18 per pound.

My last purchase from Back Creek Gun Shop ( http://blackpowderva.com/ ) was ten pounds of Diamonback black powder at $10 per pound. I bought ten pounds, and paid $15 S&H plus $25 hazmat fee, for a per pound cost of $14. I find Diamondback to be the equivalent of GOEX or Schutzen, but certainly not Swiss. If I could afford it, I would buy Swiss.

--------------------
Take care, Tom
NRA Life Member

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DarylSModerator
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26992
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 777 [Re: Tatume]
      #198136 - 30/12/11 05:00 PM

Apparently in the States, several guys can go together on one or more 25 pound boxs, and split it up but all moneys must be paid up front or the BATF will say you are selling explosives without a licence.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Tatume
.400 member


Reged: 09/06/07
Posts: 1091
Loc: Gloucester, Va USA
Re: 777 [Re: DarylS]
      #198163 - 30/12/11 11:55 PM

It's not too hard to buy powder if you have friends who will split the order with you. The companies are usually willing to mix brands and types of one-pound cans of powder. Bulk powder is usually cheaper still, but everyone has to agree on the brand and granulation, and someone has to go get it; it won't ship. Also, this notice appears to be pretty common: "No more than 50 pounds of powder sold per adult. No more than 100 pounds of powder loaded per vehicle."

--------------------
Take care, Tom
NRA Life Member

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DarylSModerator
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26992
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: 777 [Re: Tatume]
      #198176 - 31/12/11 04:37 AM

Interesting. Of course if 100 pounds of powder in 25 pound bags should go off in a collision, it would make quite a bang.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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