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Double Rifles, Single Shots & Combinations >> Building Double Rifles & Gunsmithing
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ruffcountry
.300 member


Reged: 06/01/09
Posts: 210
Loc: usa
length of pull
      #196108 - 08/12/11 05:20 PM

How do you determine proper length of pull for a double rifle ? Is it just what feels right or are there more scientific ways ?

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Double Rifle Shooters Society

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AkMike
.416 member


Reged: 19/11/05
Posts: 2576
Loc: Anchorage, Alaska
Re: length of pull [Re: ruffcountry]
      #196156 - 09/12/11 02:55 AM

Generally I hold the rifle vertical in the crook of my arm.
If my arm is at 90 degrees with my finger on the front trigger I'm good to go. For me 15" is great. I hate the short feeling of a factory bolt gun at 13+".

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"When you see that in order to produce, you need to obtain permission from men who produce nothing; when you see that money is flowing to those who deal not in goods, but in favors; you may know that your society is doomed." Ayn Rand

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DarylS
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Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26992
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: length of pull [Re: AkMike]
      #196172 - 09/12/11 05:21 AM

Much depends on the rifle's and shooter's makeup. Length of neck, bulk of chest and shoulders, length of arm, face structure. Drop at comb and heel + double trigger, single trigger along with weight and balance. It is no mystery why the best rifle makes had "try-stocks".

Sight height and shooting style also come into it, as in a stock climber or do you shoot head high lifting the rifle to your face, rather than lowering your head into the stock. Do you place the stock on the chest, or in the crook between the arm and chest - ie: below the shoulder joint.

Best to try a few if possible before deciding. Pick a trget on the wall, then closing your eyes, snapp the rifle to your shoulder and open your eyes to find the sights aligned on the target you were facing, THAT is a wonderful thing.

Moving and wiggling your head and body around to find the sights and to align them, shows a poorly fitting gun.

I don't have a modern ctg. double, but I've a cheap, stock modified ML double and a couple other guns that fit like above - they are part of me & I shoot them well. Guns that don't align automatically, I don't shoot as well, especially offhand. The double rifle should fit and point like a heavy double shotgun.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Tatume
.400 member


Reged: 09/06/07
Posts: 1091
Loc: Gloucester, Va USA
Re: length of pull [Re: DarylS]
      #196185 - 09/12/11 07:27 AM

The best thing you can do is find a good stocker and have him fit you using a "try gun." These adjustable-stock shotguns (usually) can be configured in a way that best fits you. It takes someone who knows what he is doing.

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Take care, Tom
NRA Life Member

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DennisDaigger
.224 member


Reged: 27/01/11
Posts: 47
Loc: Alaska
Re: length of pull [Re: ruffcountry]
      #196201 - 09/12/11 01:24 PM

I've never had access to a try gun and someone gifted with stock fitting but as suggested by Tatume that is probably the very best way to answer your question. The next best thing is Daryl's advice which is right on mark. The try gun sorts out a person's individual body variances that he talks about from the manufactures' one-size-fits-all standards.

I have two shotguns that I shoot well. As suggested by Daryl when the gun is mounted with your eyes closed and you find good alignment without adjusting your position after opening your eyes that is what you are looking for. Both of these shotguns align well using this method and I have recorded the measurements as my ideals.

I recently completed a Mauser and a Ruger #1 project and I nearly duplicated these shotgun ideal measurements with both. The #1 has a length of pull of 14 1/8", 3/16" cast off and 1/8" toe in. I modified the drop at heel from the ideal to accommodate the higher sighting plane of the express sights relative to the shotguns' low solid ribs. Both of these stocks were rough machine inletted for me and I specifically requested that the butts be left very large. Cabinet patternmaker's rasps were used to do the rough shaping after the inletting was done and I could start testing and adjusting fit. These rasps remove material quickly and leave smooth surfaces that require little final work. The 14 1/16" length of pull on the Mauser allows the gun to remain fully mounted during recharging without getting poked in the eye with the bolt or having to adjust the head relative to the sight plane. The end result was two rifles that mount and align like my shotguns. My oversize wood effectively became the adjustable try gun as I removed wood to accomplish fit.

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26992
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: length of pull [Re: DennisDaigger]
      #196244 - 10/12/11 05:36 AM

There is nothing more joyful nor more confidence building than to shoulder a rifle that mounts like a properly fitting shotgun.

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Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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Ripp
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Reged: 19/02/07
Posts: 16072
Loc: Montana, USA
Re: length of pull [Re: DarylS]
      #196356 - 11/12/11 04:55 AM

Quote:

There is nothing more joyful nor more confidence building than to shoulder a rifle that mounts like a properly fitting shotgun.



Couldn't agree more..

Was actually just discussing this with a friend of mine..have numerous higher end shotguns that I do alright with, however picked up an older savage sterlingworth 16 gauge at a pawn shop for agood price some time ago because it felt "so good"..took it hunting for the first time last weekend..what a sheer and ultimate joy to shoot/hunt with..seemed like whatever i pointed it at fell to the ground..and that was certainly not because of skill on my part..havnt shot a shotgun for quite some time...

Fit is really important..especially in a shotgun..but in all guns really..agree with Tatume..go to a professional and have it done corrrectly..

Ripp

--------------------
ALL MEN DIE, BUT FEW MEN TRULY LIVE..

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ruffcountry
.300 member


Reged: 06/01/09
Posts: 210
Loc: usa
Re: length of pull [Re: Ripp]
      #196592 - 13/12/11 12:08 PM

I took off the factory supplied recoil pad it was about 5/8 inch thick . Length without any pad is 14 5/8 inches to the front trigger . It actually feels pretty good at 14 5/8 as I have long arms . It felt only very slightly long with 5/8 pad but I tried a one inch slip-on and it felt really long . I think I want to keep lop at 14 5/8 , what kind of pads should I be looking at ?

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Double Rifle Shooters Society

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DarylS
.700 member


Reged: 10/08/05
Posts: 26992
Loc: Beautiful British Columbia, Ca...
Re: length of pull [Re: ruffcountry]
      #196595 - 13/12/11 12:21 PM

Sorbicoil & Limbsaver in the ticker variety. I'm not versed in what's really out there in other pads.

One thing to keep in mind, it's difficult to hit quickly with a stock that is too long, yet for a shooter/rifleman, a stock that's a bit short, is easily picked up and mastered - almost instantly.

Your shoulder position can easily and properly match a slightly short stock, but one that's too long has you struggling, stretching to grip and align the sights.

With a shotgun, snapping the gun to your shoulder should have you looking down the tubes, eye in the middle of the rib, without moving your head from erect. In other words, look at the 'target' which is called addressing the target, then snap the gun to your shoulder and you should be properly aligned on it, no head movement necessary. Bring the gun to your face with the butt in the 'pocket' of the shoulder. I submit that's very close to the way Ripp's 'new' gun fits.

A rifle that fits like this, is indeed a treasure.

Hitting seems & becomes simple when the gun fits properly.

I believe many people over stock themselves when wearing just a shirt, then a coat during hunting season really flubs things up.

--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

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ruffcountry
.300 member


Reged: 06/01/09
Posts: 210
Loc: usa
Re: length of pull [Re: DarylS]
      #196989 - 17/12/11 02:06 PM

I did it , I cut one inch off my stock this afternoon and put on one inch slip-on limbsaver . Fired two shots and they felt good . Used a large radial arm saw with a new blade that made a very clean cut and then just touched the stock to the sander to smooth the very small nicks that ocurred when the blade went thru . I am happy with it , turned out real nice , lop is 14 5/8ths with the pad on . I will leave the slip-on pad for a while but eventually I think I will put a nice screw-on pad back on .

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