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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Mauser Discussion Forum
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vegard_dino
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Reged: 05/03/09
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Mauser pre 98 action. Good?
      #195459 - 01/12/11 06:30 PM




Hello all.

A friend told me about a 1904 made Sauer with a 1897 action, 9.3*62.


How are/was these actions compared to the 98?

--------------------
Cheers all, Vegard_dino

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fuhrmann
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Re: Mauser pre 98 action. Good? [Re: vegard_dino]
      #195582 - 02/12/11 10:02 PM

To my limited knowledge there is no distinct 1897 Mauser action.
This may be a transition step between the earlier models (e.g. 93 Spanish or 96 Swedish) and the 98 action, maybe only made in small quantity and very interesting for a Mauser expert?

As to possible differences from the 98 model, there are plenty.
This is from Olson's book on the 98 model (Mauser Bolt Rifles, 3rd ed., 11th printing, 1993):

"Principal improvements over previous Mauser standard rifles produced in large quantity were cocking on opening of the bolt, shorter firing pin travel (only 1/2") and therefore faster lock time, extra large gas escape holes in the bolt, enlarged receiver ring for added strength at a vital point, locking screws to prevent the guard screws from vibrating loose, and a bolt sleeve lock. Also included were the full-deep thumb cut in the left wall of the receiver, guide rib on the bolt (first used in the Swedish Mauser), a safety lug, shrouded bolt head, gas shield on the bolt sleeve, and the undercut extractor (introduced with the German Model 96 experimental)."

Regards,
fuhrmann

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mehulkamdar
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Re: Mauser pre 98 action. Good? [Re: fuhrmann]
      #195597 - 03/12/11 01:42 AM

Vegard_dino,

Perhaps, if you could post pictures over here, some of the Mauser experts may reply.

Good hunting!

--------------------
The Ark was made by amateurs. Experts built the Titanic.

Mehul Kamdar

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kuduae
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Re: Mauser pre 98 action. Good? [Re: mehulkamdar]
      #195615 - 03/12/11 05:00 AM

Prior to the introduction of the Gewehr 98 Mauser the German army had Mauser make several small series, about 1000, of experimental prototype rifles for troop test purposes. See Jon Speed's "Mauser Archive", page 23-25. After these tests ended, apparently several Suhl and Zella-Mehlis gunmakers bought up these actions, either production overruns from the Mauser factory or the stripped military rifles to build sporting rifles. Remember, these actions were still on par with the other "most modern" bolt actions of about 1900. Both the 1910 Stukenbrok and the O.Will, Z-M catalog mention a Modell 97 that cocks on closing. Here is another such rifle by Sauer & Sohn in 8x57I, also made on one of the pre-98 test actions:



As you see, this action already has most of the features of the 98 design, such as third safety locking lug and the gas flange on the bolt sleeve, but still lacks the safety lugs on the firing pin and cocks on closing like the Swedish M96. Like the M98 transitional actions and the WW1 Kar 98a carbine action, it is a small ring action. I rate these actions as strong as any of the small ring M98 actions, plenty for all 9.3x62 factory and factory level loads. When the 9.3x62 was introduced by Otto Bock, Berlin c1905, smokeless powders were still in their infancy and produced much higher pressures than needed today to achieve the same ballistics.

Edited by CptCurl (26/12/11 10:23 PM)

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vegard_dino
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Re: Mauser pre 98 action. Good? [Re: kuduae]
      #195902 - 06/12/11 12:26 PM



Thanks for the reply and information.
Yes, it looks just like the one you show Kudae.
Interesting action and also ok to handle the 9.3*62(a great caliber in my mind).

--------------------
Cheers all, Vegard_dino

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superlarry
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Re: Mauser pre 98 action. Good? [Re: vegard_dino]
      #218105 - 17/10/12 08:06 PM

I have a Rigby .275 recently acquired which I believe was built on one of these actions. The reciever is stamped 1897? Any more info would greatly be appreciated.

As far as I know the rifle came out of the Rigby factory in August 1898, the 18th .275 made.

Apologies for the bad picture quality










Edited by CptCurl (02/12/12 02:28 AM)

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A10ACN
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Re: Mauser pre 98 action. Good? [Re: superlarry]
      #218204 - 20/10/12 04:17 AM

Neat rifle! Do all the Mauser numbers match??

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Handloader52
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Reged: 13/12/09
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Loc: Maryland, USA
Re: Mauser pre 98 action. Good? [Re: superlarry]
      #218777 - 01/11/12 04:48 AM

I have one as well stamped Erfurt 1916, serial number 8XX. See http://www.nramuseum.org/the-museum/the-...on-carbine.aspx for an example of what mine looked like before my Grandfather sporterized it. It uses a standard 98 bolt. Also, see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nT8Wih_XB-4 for an interesting video of one stamped just like mine. He even provides a drawing of the receiver stamp. You'll notice on both examples the rifle does NOT have the characteristic bulge at the front of the receiver like the normal 98s do.
Keith

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DarylS
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Re: Mauser pre 98 action. Good? [Re: Handloader52]
      #218791 - 01/11/12 09:34 AM

I've never seen this German Modell 97 action before, but have owned a number of M96's, a M93 and two M94's.
As to strength?

The M94 I now have, is chambered (by someone?) in .308 Winchester, which is a 60,000psi round. A good or bad idea, it has survived factory 180gr. ammo for 30years by the fellow I received it from.

The M94's and M96's I've had have been chambered in 7x57, ie: 57,000psi, 8x57 another 57,00psi round and the 6.5x55, a 55,000psi round.

I have seen M94 Husky's listed as M96's for sale, chambered in 8x57 - 57,000psi, 9.3x62 - 57,000psi and the .30/06, which is another 60,000psi round.

My M96 in 6.5x55 has driven 129gr. Hornady Spire Points at 2,960fps with the same maximum web expansion as factory 156gr. Norma ammo, when using once fired Norma brass in my handloads. I loaded to the same speed, same load and received the same expansion in RP brass. It also put out 140gr. Speer Spitzers at 2,860fps.

So - point being, the modell 97 must be a decently strong action, even better than the ones I listed, that is, if you put faith in the third lug and should be fine if one sticks to it's European factory ctg. pressure levels - ie: 57,000psi or less. I would not push it further than that, personally.

Kuduae - good note: "When the 9.3x62 was introduced by Otto Bock, Berlin c1905, smokeless powders were still in their infancy and produced much higher pressures than needed today to achieve the same ballistics."

Should also note than many rounds were underloaded as well, compared to what they would be today, or were later on, merely due to the instability of those early powders in climatic extremes.

It was after 1923, when the 9.3x62 was raised from 2,175fps to it's current 2,340fps (approx.)

Today, with what seems a quite moderately light load indeed, a 9.3x57 can achieve the 9.3x62's earlier factory ballistics which were what initially made the 9.3x62 famous. This speaks volumes for the 9.3x57.


--------------------
Daryl


"a gun without hammers is like a Spaniel without ears" King George V

Edited by Daryl_S (01/11/12 09:41 AM)

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bobnob
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Reged: 11/11/12
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Loc: NSW Australia
Re: Mauser pre 98 action. Good? [Re: DarylS]
      #219494 - 12/11/12 09:56 AM

This is my first time posting here so I hope this reference is not out of order...

I have had this sporterised Mauser since I was a kid. I hope this photo shows up the markings clearly.

It was rebarreled in 308 Win long before it came to me in 1984. It has had lots of factory ammo through it but I load light loads in it these days to make sure it lasts.

Anyone know anything about these?



Edited by CptCurl (02/12/12 02:28 AM)

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superlarry
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Re: Mauser pre 98 action. Good? [Re: A10ACN]
      #231087 - 11/06/13 10:07 PM

Quote:

Neat rifle! Do all the Mauser numbers match??



Thanks! The serial number on the action and bolt is 24

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