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Shooting & Reloading - Mausers, Big Bores and others >> Big Bore Rifles

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Stalker
.224 member

Reged: 21/09/04
Posts: 11
Loc: Norway

New gun - the classic dilemma
#19496 - 28/09/04 07:26 PM

I was recommended to contact you people on NitroExpress.com to get adequate help for my dilemma.
My pal and I took an oath, that we during the next ten years will go to Africa to hunt for cape buffalo. It's more likely the trip will happen in the last period of the decennium than the first, I'm afraid ;-)
However, that brings me to my dilemma, because then I have to get myself a new gun - big bore rifle. (hehh)
I decided that a double barreled rifle will be too expensive, so I will go for a traditional, well-functional bolt rifle, and by this point I'm looking into a Mauser M98 in 458 Lott, but is of course going to check for other rifles and calibers as well. I've never shot anything as big as a 458 Lott, and just hope to be able to cope with the recoil. (Is 416 Rigby much less kicking?)
However, recently someone told me that guns in 458 Lott often have problem to feed the cases. Is that correct? Should I go for a 416 Rigby and load it up a bit heavier instead?

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Marrakai
.416 member

Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 3591
Loc: Darwin, Top End of Australia

Re: New gun - the classic dilemma [Re: Stalker]
#19500 - 28/09/04 08:36 PM

Stalker:
I think the smart money is to have a very close look at the CZ 550 in .416 Rigby. This rifle is pretty-much DG shootable straight out of the box, and is probably much cheaper (and more reliable!) than having an M-98 worked up. Many posters here will contend that the .450-bore is significantly better than the .40-bore, but IMHO that is only true for the guide, not the client. A well-placed 400gr .416 premium bullet (..or two!) will do the job on buffalo very nicely indeed.

BTW, a well-stoked .416 Rigby will still recoil very stoutly in a light rifle, so keep the weight up over 10 lbs for comfortable shooting. It is far easier to teach yourself to enjoy CARRYING a 10-pound rifle, than it is to learn to SHOOT an 8-pound hard kicker!

JMHO...

--------------------
Marrakai
When the bull drops, the bullshit stops!
--------------------------------
www.marrakai-adventure.com.au

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ALAN_MCKENZIE
.400 member

Reged: 24/03/04
Posts: 1214
Loc: Western Australia

Re: New gun - the classic dilemma [Re: Stalker]
#19504 - 28/09/04 10:18 PM

Iff recoil is going to bother you then maybe a CZ Brno 550 in 375 H&H would be the answer.
A 416 Rigby is a much better choice with a 400 gn Woodleigh solid .
The recoil of a 416 is simular to shooting a single barreled shotgun loaded with solids.
Dont try to sight a 416 or any heavy calibre in whilst sitting at a bench.
Find something to lean on whilst standing.
Just my personal opinion.
Al

--------------------
"Dogs always bark at their master"
Sir Seretse Khama.25th June 1949

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Karl
.275 member

Reged: 28/05/03
Posts: 83
Loc: South Pacific

Re: New gun - the classic dilemma [Re: Stalker]
#19508 - 28/09/04 11:32 PM

Either will do the job identically.

The 458 is a bigger calibre and will score points with your buddies in that regard.

The 416 Rigby is the timeless classic and is even known to some non gun owners who 'know a few calibres'.

It will come down to whatever you feel out of 'Size versus pedigree' gives you the biggest hard on.

Personally I would choose a 416 rigby because it can be loaded for long range shooting.
On the other hand the 458 lott can use cheap soft 45-70 bullets so you can do more plinking etc. with it.

Karl.

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M82A1Barret50Cal
.275 member

Reged: 12/04/04
Posts: 96
Loc: ACT, Australia

Re: New gun - the classic dilemma [Re: Karl]
#19535 - 29/09/04 11:46 AM

I would go for the above mentioned CZ550 in .416 Rigby with 400 grain solids and get a very hot load for it so you can get maximum energy out of it.

M82A1

PS
I would not respect anyone more of less for using a 458 as opposed to a 416, they are both big cals and very respectable

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Will
.333 member

Reged: 04/02/03
Posts: 303
Loc: Kansas

Re: New gun - the classic dilemma [Re: Stalker]
#19538 - 29/09/04 03:47 PM

Stalker,

You do not need a Lott or a Rigby to hunt buffalo. A CZ 550 is the cheapest route, and in .375 H&H it will kill any buffalo that ever walked or will walk the earth.

--------------------
_________________________________________________
Bill Stewart

Once you have been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun.

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Martin
.224 member

Reged: 15/09/04
Posts: 24
Loc: British

Re: New gun - the classic dilemma [Re: Stalker]
#19563 - 01/10/04 05:18 AM

It sounds as if you have never shot a big bore, but there was a first time for everyone. Ideally, you shouldn't buy either until you have properly tried both calibres.

I don't know if this is possible in the U.S., it certainly used to be just outside London, but try to spend some time at a good shooting school learning to handle such a rifle in .416 and 458+ calibres. The money will be well spent.

You can then decide on your own volition whether you can truly handle a 458 Lott. If you can, great! Buy one. But if not, then a .416 will be more than enough in practicle terms. Remember, there is nothing "macho" about shooting a .458 Lott and missing the target, it's not much fun either.

Good luck, whichever way you decide to go.

Martin

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Hauptjäger
.275 member

Reged: 03/01/04
Posts: 94
Loc: Hilo, Hawaii

Re: New gun - the classic dilemma [Re: Stalker]
#19638 - 07/10/04 02:26 PM

Stalker,
I would agree with Marrakai the CZ 550 in 416 would give you all the “bang for the buck” you would ever need, and be a fine rifle with classic lines to boot. However if recoil is an issue AL is right, go for the CZ in 375. I got one in 375 a few months ago and just love it! It’s all I need for North America and would be fine for Buff, however I sometimes dream about rebarreling her out to a 404 Jeff

--------------------
To a point you can never have too much horsepower!

Hauptjager

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bonanza
.400 member

Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina

Re: New gun - the classic dilemma [Re: Hauptjäger]
#19640 - 07/10/04 11:02 PM

I might as well weigh in. I had the same dilemma, but mine was much more expensive. What to get in a DR: 470, 416, or 375. I went with the 375 because I like to shoot - alot. I was able to try the same gun in 470. It rocked my world when I shot it and was not willing to spend 9 grand on a gun I'd hate to shoot. I often will shoot 20 rounds a time. I also love the bullet range: 235 - 350 awsome! See you at Lodi

--------------------

"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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TerryR
.224 member

Reged: 13/07/04
Posts: 42
Loc: Greensburg, Pa.

Re: New gun - the classic dilemma [Re: Stalker]
#19749 - 14/10/04 06:07 AM

A well placed shot with a 375 H&H will take care of any buffalo on earth. A poorly placed shot with a 416/458/470/500/etc will put you in a sticky situation. Always choose the gun that you can shoot well. Your PH will be quite happy if you show up with a 375 because recoil and flinching won't be a problem. If you can shoot a 416 or 458 comfortably than go for it, in my case, I took a 375 H&H and took my buffalo without any problem.

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NitroX
.700 member

Reged: 25/12/02
Posts: 39877
Loc: Barossa Valley, South Australi...

Re: New gun - the classic dilemma [Re: Stalker]
#19763 - 14/10/04 11:28 PM

Stalker

What is the biggest calibre you currently own?

The reason I ask this, is that sometimes it makes sense to build recoil tolerance up step by step.

Also will you have a use for the caibre hunting at home, maybe moose?

--------------------
John aka NitroX

...
Govt get out of our lives NOW!
"I love the smell of cordite in the morning."
"A Sharp spear needs no polish"

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8x56mn
.300 member

Reged: 26/02/04
Posts: 149
Loc: Wine Country, Finger Lakes Wa...

Re: New gun - the classic dilemma [Re: NitroX]
#19769 - 15/10/04 03:29 AM

Stalker
You might want to consider the 9.3's, they also will kill any Buff on the planet and recoil is mild in an 8 pound gun. I recently returned from Zim, where I killed everything with my 9.3x74, the buff with one shot with softs.

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NE450No2
.375 member

Reged: 10/01/03
Posts: 942

Re: New gun - the classic dilemma [Re: 8x56mn]
#19826 - 19/10/04 02:36 PM

Stalker
See my post in the double rifle forum about the 9,3x74R double rifle being the Holy Grail.

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bonanza
.400 member

Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina

Re: New gun - the classic dilemma [Re: NE450No2]
#19835 - 19/10/04 11:38 PM

450,

What kind of 450No2 do you own??

--------------------

"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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NE450No2
.375 member

Reged: 10/01/03
Posts: 942

Re: New gun - the classic dilemma [Re: bonanza]
#19839 - 20/10/04 01:36 AM

My 450 No2 was made by Edwinson Green and Sons sometime around 1925.
The action and barrels came from Jeffery. All the markings are the same, the sights are the same, the dolls head even has the same engraving as a higher grade Jeffery. Green was mainly a shotgun maker but from what I have found he built a few rifles too. The rifle has 28" bbls and a very nice stock. No ejectors, it weighs 11 3/4 lbs. It shoots 480gr Woodleigh Softs and Solids, 500 gr Hornady Softs and old style Solids, 500 gr Swift A Frames, and 350 Hornady RN into the same group at 100 yards.
I have used it to take Squirrel, armadillo, skunk, raccoon, coyotes, deer, wild pigs, eland, 2 buffalo and 3 elephant.
It is my most favorite rifle.
I took it and my 9,3 Chapuis to Zim in June 2004.

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bonanza
.400 member

Reged: 17/05/04
Posts: 2335
Loc: South Carolina

Re: New gun - the classic dilemma [Re: NE450No2]
#19844 - 20/10/04 04:39 AM

do you have any pics of you 450#2

--------------------

"Speak Precisely" G. Gordon Liddy.

"Life is absurd, chaotic and we must define its purpose with our actions" Abert Camus

"I''m the dude playing a dude disguised as another dude."

"Yo! Mr. White"

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NE450No2
.375 member

Reged: 10/01/03
Posts: 942

Re: New gun - the classic dilemma [Re: bonanza]
#19855 - 20/10/04 11:01 AM

When it comes to posting pictures I am currently illiterate.
You can see it, my elephant, and my 9,3 Chapuis with some of the animals I shot in Zim this June on Ian Lewis's web site
www.safarivideos.com
My initals are TB

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Stalker
.224 member

Reged: 21/09/04
Posts: 11
Loc: Norway

Re: New gun - the classic dilemma [Re: NitroX]
#19882 - 20/10/04 07:09 PM

NitroX asked:
Stalker
What is the biggest calibre you currently own?
The reason I ask this, is that sometimes it makes sense to build recoil tolerance up step by step.
Also will you have a use for the caibre hunting at home, maybe moose?

NitroX:
Today I only have one rifle, and that is a .300 wby mag that I handle quite well. The recoil does not bother me very much. I've got this rifle to have a caliber that would work for all occasions in Norway. I've used it for moose, reindeer, elk and smaller game, even for birdhunting. I think it's a very versatile caliber, and it's built into a custom rifle that gives very acceptable precision. All in all, I have the gun I need for the hunting at home.
But some time during the next few years, my pal and I will go to Africa to hunt buffalo. Then I need something bigger, and I would also be happy with something hard hitting when I'm going out for the brown bear.

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AdamTayler
.375 member

Reged: 22/03/04
Posts: 688
Loc: B.C.

Re: New gun - the classic dilemma [Re: Stalker]
#19905 - 21/10/04 03:08 PM

Stalker

Your 300 Wby will do just fine for brown bear. I loaded mine up with 220 gr Nosler partitions and they did the job. In fact, the bullet passed completely through the bear. It was a coastal grizzly, which some people argue is a brown bear.

Adam

--------------------
It's the journey, not the destination.

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Stalker
.224 member

Reged: 21/09/04
Posts: 11
Loc: Norway

Re: New gun - the classic dilemma [Re: AdamTayler]
#19940 - 22/10/04 06:58 PM

Yes, I think that is correct. I've also learned that gizzly and brown bear actually is the same bear.
And I don't doubt a 300 wby is more than a such bear can stand for. But I should like to have more stopping power if I should hunt for a wounded bear. Just to be sure that the eventualities are minimized.

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Stalker
.224 member

Reged: 21/09/04
Posts: 11
Loc: Norway

Re: New gun - the classic dilemma [Re: Stalker]
#20372 - 02/11/04 05:26 PM

Thanks a lot for all your help.
I think I've made my decision - I may go for a CZ 550 in 416 Rigby. After all the help from you, I've studied a lot of loading manuals about different calibers and read about the 416 in practical use here and there - seems to be a fine medicine.

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